The Systemic Way

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we welcome back Professor Peter Rober to discuss his book Becoming an Effective Family Therapist , focusing on the emotional life of the therapist. Peter explores how our feelings in the therapy room can offer valuable clues about family relationships, alliances and the dynamics unfolding between people. Through clinical examples, he considers how therapists ca...

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we are joined by Dr Mairi Evans, Systemic Therapist, Social Worker and Clinical Director in the NHS, to explore autism, neurodivergence and the stories that shape how people are understood within families, services and wider society. Drawing on her doctoral research with mothers of autistic girls, Mairi explores the “aha moments” that can emerge through the dia...

What happens when we stop asking, “Who is right?” and start asking, “What are we making here?” In this episode of The Systemic Way, we are joined by Abbie VanMeter from the CMM Institute and host of the wonderful podcast Stories Lived and Stories Told  for a wide-ranging and deeply engaging conversation about Coordinated Management of Meaning (CMM). The conversation explores Abbie's personal...

What happens when the systems designed to help us start shaping, limiting or even defining the problems we are trying to solve? In this episode of The Systemic Way , we are joined by Mark Phillips , a highly experienced systemic psychotherapist, mental health nurse and strategic leader who has worked across NHS, local authority and youth justice services for more than two decades. Mark is currentl...

Who are the people, past and present, who have helped you become who you are? In this episode of The Systemic Way , we explore Team of Life , a creative narrative practice developed from the Tree of Life approach. We speak with Mariangels Ferrer-Duch and Vicky Eames from Riverbank Psychology  as we discuss how to help people reconnect with stories of strength, courage and belonging. This is a refl...

Join us for a thought-provoking episode as we sit down with Kunsang Yang Yang , a pioneering voice in the integration of Buddhist philosophy and systemic family therapy. Drawing from years of personal spiritual practice, professional experience, and the teachings of his root guru, H.H. Yisie Vorle (as featured in the book Path Beyond Samsara ), Yang Yang explores how Buddhist concepts like mindful...

What does it mean to truly see in therapy? Not just to recognise a problem or follow a model, but to sense the subtle movements of relationship — the flicker of meaning between people, the quiet shifts that change the course of a conversation. In this episode, Dr. Hugh Palmer, systemic family psychotherapist, trainer and writer, invites us into the art of expanded vision. Drawing on Gregory Bateso...

In this episode, we shine a spotlight on the Pears Family School, a pioneering Alternative Provision school in the UK that is redefining how we support children with complex emotional, behavioral, and mental health needs. Facing a national crisis in child mental health and a lack of joined-up services, the Pears Family School bridges the gap between education and mental health through a unique, sy...

In this episode, we are joined by pioneering systemic psychotherapist, organisational consultant, and author Christine Oliver for a rich conversation exploring systemic approaches to organisational life, leadership, and change. Drawing from over 30 years of experience across the NHS, charities, international organisations, faith communities, and private consultancy, Christine reflects on how syste...

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we speak with Rick Murphy and Lisa Dvorjetz about their book A Systemic Approach to Integrative Counselling (2024)  and the growing need to bring relational thinking into everyday therapeutic practice. Together, we explore how familiar counselling models such as person-centred, psychodynamic, CBT, Gestalt, and action-based approaches can be reworked through sys...

Celebrating our 100th episode of The Systemic Way Podcast. We took The Systemic Way to @EFTA-RELATES 2025 Congress in Lyon and stepped into a space shaped by change, tension, and possibility. Across four days, we spoke with therapists, researchers, and practitioners working at the edges of systemic practice. You hear their reflections, their challenges, and the moments that stayed with them. From...

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we sit down with renowned psychotherapist, author, and educator Jan Winhall to explore the transformative power of the Felt Sense Polyvagal Model (FSPM). With over four decades of clinical experience, Jan invites us into a radically compassionate, body‑based understanding of trauma, addiction, and healing. Together, we unpack how the body’s survival responses a...

In this episode, we’re turning our attention to the UK drama Adolescence — a series that begins with a single, shocking event but quickly reveals a much wider web of responsibility. Rather than focusing solely on the actions of one young person, the drama draws us into the interconnected systems surrounding him: family, school, peer culture, mental health services, and the criminal justice system....

In Grandmotherland, Dr Judith Edwards offers an exploration of Grandmotherhood as an intergenerational, relational, and socially constructed position. Drawing on myth, fairy tales, family narratives, and contemporary lived experience, she examines how dominant cultural discourses shape expectations of grandmothers and organise family roles, boundaries, and power across generations. Judith attends...

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we talk about age in the room—listening for it not as decline, but as presence, memory, and becoming. Drawing inspiration from Maya Angelou’s On Aging, where she writes of being “old as the hills, and far from done,” we explore lifecycle transitions, working with older people, and how a therapist’s age is read, misread, and positioned in the therapeutic relatio...

In this episode we speak with no other than Dr. Jaako Seikkula on this latest book Why Dialogue Does Cure: Explaining What Makes Dialogue Unprecedentedly Effective in Difficult Crises (2025). The book presents the core principles of Open Dialogue, a system of psychiatric care and dialogic psychotherapy that has spread to over 40 countries. Why Dialogue Does Cure explores the transformative power o...

In this episode, we reflect on the deeply moving documentary White Nanny, Black Child (2023), which explores Britain’s “farming” system — a practice through which over 70,000 West African children were fostered by white British families between 1955 and 1995. Through the voices of nine adults who reunite to share their experiences, the film opens up tender and painful reflections on identity, belo...

In this very special episode we sit down with members of the DWP - Race Group (Shakira Nkanang, Calvin Malcom and John Burnham) as we turn our systemic lens on the iconic album by Tracy Chapman (Tracy Chapman 1988).  We ask, how does Tracy Chapman's album provide a soundtrack for confronting race, power, and privilege in therapeutic practice?  What do the anthems of our lives reveal about the...

In systemic psychotherapy we often focus on the words we use, but what about the sound of them? In this episode, we meet with systemic psychotherapist and social worker Jordan Makmihe to explore the subtle yet significant role of accent in therapeutic practice. Our conversation considers how the nuances of our speech—the melody, the rhythm, the inflection—carry unspoken stories about identity, bel...

In this thought-provoking episode, we sit down with therapist, trainer, supervisor and author Desa Markovic to explore her compelling paper on the Aspects of Reading  (2021) - a model that invites practitioners, students, and educators into a deeper, more layered relationship with texts. Desa guides us through a nuanced framework that separates and then interweaves four key reading positions: The...

In this inspiring and thought-provoking episode, we sit down with peace activist, former Jain monk, and ecological visionary Satish Kumar to explore the profound power of Radical Love —the focus of his latest book. Together, we dive into how love can be understood not just as a personal feeling, but as a systemic force capable of transforming families, communities, and entire societies. Satish sha...

What if our biggest crises – from climate collapse to mental health – demand not simpler solutions, but a deeper embrace of complexity? Join us for a profound conversation with Nora Bateson , award-winning filmmaker, writer, and systems thinker. Nora takes us inside the rich ecology of ideas explored in her groundbreaking book, Combining.  Nora challenges us to see the world as a web of inseparabl...

In this rich and wide-ranging conversation, we sit down with Umberta Telfener, President of EFTA, and Hans Christian Michaelsen, Vice President, to explore the heart of systemic practice across Europe. Together, they unpack what EFTA (European Family Therapy Association) is, how it’s structured, and what it offers to both long-standing members and curious newcomers. We hear about their personal jo...

In this episode, we speak with Taiwo Afuape and Sumita Dutta, Co-Directors of the Institute of Family Therapy in London, to explore the rich history and bold new direction of one of the UK’s leading centres for systemic practice.  Together, we reflect on IFT’s legacy, its role in shaping generations of family therapists, and how its current leadership is reimagining training and practice through a...

Join us for an inspiring and thought-provoking interview with Dr. Harlene Anderson, a trailblazer in systemic psychotherapy and co-founder of the Collaborative-Dialogical Approach. In this deep dive, we explore her revolutionary ideas—from challenging traditional therapy hierarchies to redefining power, knowledge, and the role of language in healing.   We’ll unpack:   - The origins of her work—Wha...