Unravelling

Special day early episode drop for this, our third episode of our Pride Month series on conversion practices, we welcome Dr. Gerald (Jerry) Davison, a pioneering psychologist whose work helped change the mental health field's understanding of sexual orientation. Dr. Davison reflects on his early career in the 1960s, when homosexuality was still classified as a mental disorder and attempts to chang...

The second episode of Unravelling ’s Pride Month series examines the hidden human and economic costs of so-called conversion therapy. Kurt speaks with health economist and professor Ben Harrell, Ph. D., of Trinity University, on how these discredited practices shape not only mental health outcomes but also education, employment, and long-term financial well-being by disrupting what economists call...

In the first episode of Unravelling’s three-part Pride Month series, Mary and Kurt examine the realities of so-called conversion "therapy," which many survivors, advocates, and researchers more accurately describe as conversion practices. These are not legitimate therapeutic interventions, but harmful efforts designed to change, suppress, or deny a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity. M...

Herein we present the exciting conclusion of our three episode series all about the world of Table Top Role Playing Group Therapy (Collaborative Role-playing Integrative Therapy) using the world of Dungeons & Dragons. Will our adventures solve the mystery any escape to tell the tale? Will they experience group cohesion and personal growth?!? You'll only find out if you listen to the very excit...

In this very special episode of Unravellling, hosts Kurt and Mary step into the world of Table Top Role Playing Group Therapy (Collaborative Role-playing Integrative Therapy) using the world of Dungeons & Dragons, they explored in the previous episode. Guided by therapists and dungeon masters Vinny and E, and joined by producers Andrew and Hans, they create their own D&D characters, each t...

Can a game of Dungeons & Dragons become a powerful tool for therapy? In this episode of Unravelling, Mary and Kurt explore how tabletop role-playing games are being used in group psychotherapy to help people experiment with new ways of relating, build emotional awareness, and imagine different futures for themselves. They’re joined by Dr. Vinny Dehili, a licensed psychologist and group therapy...

Bipolar disorder is a term many people have heard, but it is often misunderstood. This episode of Unravelling takes a closer look at what bipolar disorder really is and how it shows up in people’s lives. Kurt speaks with Matt Dove, PMHNP-BC, FNP-C, a dual-certified nurse practitioner in family medicine and psychiatric mental health at the Brattleboro Retreat. Their conversation explores the full p...

In this episode of Unravelling, Mary interviews Angela Harrelson, maternal aunt of George Floyd (Perry), a registered nurse, author, and racial justice advocate. Angela remembers Perry as a deeply family-oriented, faithful, and big-hearted dreamer, beyond the global symbol he has become. She describes the shock of his murder during the early pandemic, the disorienting experience of grieving both p...

This episode of Unravelling explores how grief unfolds not only within us but also in community. Kurt interviews Nikki, creator of the Instagram project Dad’s Vinyl Stash , which she began after the death of her father, Bobby, a passionate and deeply private drummer with a vast record collection. By sharing his albums one by one, Nikki continues her relationship with him through the music he loved...

Why are there so many types of psychotherapists and mental health professionals, and what do they all DO? On this episode, we take a deep dive into the messy, overlapping histories of psychiatrists, psychologists, and social workers. Mary and producer Hans ask Kurt many questions about all of this, looking to get to the bottom of what all of this is about. Kurt shares guideposts for finding the ri...

Recorded at the 2025 Brattleboro Literary Festival, Kurt White speaks with author, designer, and Creative Director of The Atlantic , Peter Mendelsund. Their conversation centers on Mendelsund’s book Exhibitionist: 1 Journal, 1 Depression, 100 Paintings , an unconventional work that pairs personal journal entries with paintings created during a period of severe depression. Through vivid, abstract i...

In this episode of Unravelling, recorded at the 2025 Brattleboro Literary Festival, Mary Wilson sits down with author and literary agent Betsy Lerner for an intimate conversation about writing, mental illness, and family dynamics. Betsy shares how she began keeping diaries as a child after reading Anne Frank, using journaling to process secret feelings and a sense of being different within her fam...

This episode explores how the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. continues to shape conversations about mental health. Mary speaks with Kurt and special guest Dr. Nnamdi Pole, who for the past five years have collaborated on annual MLK Day presentations at the Brattleboro Retreat, a mental health hospital in Vermont. The live events draw directly from King’s speeches and writings to examine raci...

As the year comes to a close, Mary and Kurt welcome listeners to a reflective New Year’s conversation from Dr. Justin Hecht, Jungian analyst and psychologist. This episode explores the cyclical nature of endings and beginnings, and how pain, grief, and disappointment can be metabolized into vision, vocation, and hope. Drawing on Jungian ideas of individuation, the “wound and the vision,” Dr. Hecht...

In this special roundtable episode, Unravelling turns its focus to the complex intersection of politics and mental health. Hosts Kurt and Mary are joined by clinicians Sarah Turbow and Dr. Geoff Kane, and researcher and professor Dr. Nnamdi Pole, for a conversation on how political identity, policy, and power shape our inner lives and the lives of the patients clinicians serve. The panel examines...

In the final installment of our special series, Architecture of the Self , Kurt and Mary dive into the future of mental health through the lens of epigenetics. Featuring Dr. Tesfaye Mersha, epigenetics expert, Endowed Chair, and Professor at Cincinnati Children’s Hospital Medical Center, and weaving in insights from earlier guests in the series, this episode explores how genetics, environment, and...

In part three of our special series, Architecture of the Self, Kurt sits down with neuroscientist and pioneer in the world of psychedelic research, Dr. Gül Dölen, to explore the concept of “critical periods,” unique windows when the brain is most open to learning and change. Dr. Dölen explains how these periods shape everything from language and social behavior to habits and personality, drawing o...

On today's episode of Unravelling, we continue our exploration of the architecture of the sellf as Mary sits down with Dr. J. Douglas Bremner, who has spent much of his career exploring trauma, memory, and dissociation. Trauma-related diagnoses are especially significant in the mental health field, because they can be quite disabling and are also not uncommon, and also because they represent a pro...

This episode is the first in a series of four episodes that we are calling "the architecture of the self" wherein we explore human development, genetics and epigenetics, memory and trauma, and, today, diagnosis and the delineation of "normal" and "abnormal" in the field of mental health. These episodes can all be listened to on their own, but each of them is exploring contributions from medicine,...

In this very special episode, Kurt sits down with comedian Gary Gulman to talk about recovery from serious mental health problems, depression, getting treatment and his journey of becoming such a powerful advocate on behalf of mental health. From childhood struggles to finding a way to be oneself, they find humor and hope in the exploration of some of life's darkest moments. Gary has several comed...

In this episode, Kurt sits down with guest Dr. Stephanie Jarvi Steele, a clinician and researcher who has extensive experience and knowledge about "non-suidical self-injury". In this detailed and thought provoking interview, she helps unravel common misperceptions about NSSI, including it's differentiation from suicidal behavior, and its complicated relationship to suicidal thinking. We discuss my...

In this episode of Unravelling, we are taking a moment to acknowledge September as Suicide Prevention Month, specifically World Suicide Prevention Day - September 10, 2025.  Host Mary Wilson had the opportunity to sit down with Dr Rachel Conrad, who serves as Medical Director of Adolescent Services at the Brattleboro Retreat.  Together, they discuss issues relating to youth suicide prevention, and...

In this week’s episode of Unravelling, we have a bit of a special episode: a roundtable discussion with our hosts Mary and Kurt, joined by our producers Hans and Andrew, and our guest, Professor Sean Duffy.  Sean is a psychologist and Associate Professor of Psychology at Rutgers-Camden, and together, we share a bit of a metaphorical meal of a discussion about something that unites us all:  food. ...

This episode of Unravelling has Dr. Kevin Volkan, psychologist, psychoanalyst, professor, and author of Human Aggression, War, and Genocide joins Kurt to talk about large group psychology and continue the conversation about what drives so much of the great evils of world. Dr. Volkan shares insights on a vast array of associated topics, as they together work to approach and understand the darker si...

In today’s episode of Unravelling, host Kurt White sits down with Alette Smeulers, Professor of Criminal Law, Criminology, and International Crimes at the University of Groningen in The Netherlands.  Professor Smeulers has spent decades trying to answer the question: What is it that makes people perpetrators of mass atrocities, and why do people follow such leaders?  Together, they unravel the spe...