The Pod Mill
Just Say No To The DSO
Dentistry is experiencing an attack by well-funded corporations who want to own the work of each dentist’s hands. While the promises of wealth and ease DSO’s present to owner-dentists appear enticing, experience shows the reality is very different. Just Say No to the DSO is a deep dive podcast for dentists in all stages of their career. It is especially for those who are looking at whether or not the option to sell to a DSO is the right choice. Our expert hosts, Bob Spiel, MBA and Nate Williams, CPA, CFP take listeners on a step by step journey through Season One laying out the realities of se...
Where to listen?
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Episodes
Tumbling Down In a Pile of Lawsuits with Dr Mike Davis 06.07.2026 24:26
In this episode, Dr. Michael Davis discusses the pitfalls of DSO affiliations, legal settlements, and the importance of ethical practice in dentistry. He highlights recent cases like Aspen Dental's legal issues and offers advice for dentists considering partnerships.
Did We Mention a House of Cards? with Dr Mike Davis 03.07.2026 51:15
This episode features Dr. Mike Davis discussing the complex financial restructuring of major DSOs like Dental Care Alliance and Affordable Care, revealing the risks for dentists and the industry. We explore the implications of private equity ownership, debt-for-equity swaps, and the future of dental practice investments.
A Listener Case Study on Selling Your Practice 18.06.2026 32:03
As a dental professional, you may wonder about the implications of selling your practice to a DSO versus a private buyer. In this episode it's case study time as we delve into crucial insights on this topic, including tax considerations, the time value of money, and what it means for your practice.
It All Starts Right Here with Dr. Brendan Gallagher 03.06.2026 1:02:54
We've looked at serveral dentists deep into their careers and gone over how a DSO doesn't really make sense...what about the doctor with all of the promise in the world on the very front of his career...does a DSO make sense there? In this episode, Brendan Gallagher, an oral surgeon and podcaster, shares insights on the impact of DSOs on dentistry, the importance of practice ownership, and strateg...
Now, The DSO Will Make Your Equity...Disappear 12.05.2026 25:33
This episode exposes the realities behind DSO equity and why selling to a DSO often results in less financial benefit than expected. There is a magic trick all DSOs are trying to pull...the magically disappearing equity. Nate and Bob dissect the myths, true principles, and risks associated with DSO deals, empowering dentists to make informed decisions about their practice futures.
Sometimes It Pays To Listen To Your Better Half with Dr Mike Crockett Part 2 01.05.2026 44:07
Starting a dental practice can be daunting, but with the right insights and support, it can also be incredibly rewarding. Mike and Christy Crockett, who have navigated the complex world of dentistry together, share their journey—from Mike’s schooling to their eventual ownership of a successful dental practice. In this post, you'll discover key lessons on building a practice, the importance of rela...
Sometimes It Pays To Listen To Your Better Half with Dr Mike Crockett Part 1 01.05.2026 45:09
Starting a dental practice can be daunting, but with the right insights and support, it can also be incredibly rewarding. Mike and Christy Crockett, who have navigated the complex world of dentistry together, share their journey—from Mike’s schooling to their eventual ownership of a successful dental practice. In this post, you'll discover key lessons on building a practice, the importance of rela...
Unmasking the DSO Deal: What Every Dentist Must Know 19.04.2026 36:00
This episode exposes the hidden truths behind DSO deals in dentistry, revealing how dentists are often financially fleeced through complex deal structures. Bob and Nate bring you their expert analysis to break down the mechanics of these deals, showing why saying no to DSOs is crucial for dentists' financial health.
A Smooth Voice From the South With Dr Travis Nixon 14.04.2026 56:12
In this in-depth interview, a blue blooded Tar Heel, Dr. Travis Nixon shares his insights on the rise of DSOs, legislative challenges, and how dentists can protect their profession through education and advocacy. Not only does Dr Nixon have great insight into the current dentistry pipeline of practitioners, he also shares incredible insights into the business and structural changes of medicine and...
Who Works For Who? 6 DSO Tricks Most Dentists Don't See 27.03.2026 25:48
This episode explores the six fundamental principles that reveal why DSO deals are detrimental to dental practitioners. Hosts Bob and Nate dissect the realities of private equity models, emphasizing the importance of maintaining control, understanding the true value of your practice, and making informed decisions to protect your wealth and profession.
Sage Wisdom is Hard to Come By These Days with Dr. Michael W. Davis 25.03.2026 1:10:44
summary In this episode, Dr. Michael W. Davis shares critical insights into the private equity influence on dentistry, the risks of DSOs, and how dentists can protect their practices and patients. A must-listen for dental professionals concerned about industry integrity and patient care.
Away Game with the Orthodontic Pearls Podcast and Nate Williams 17.03.2026 1:27:58
Nate sits down with the Orthodontic Pearls podcast in order to give his take on owning your own practice and why to stay away from selling out to PE and DSO groups. It's a full panel lineup with Drs. Chris Teeters, Andy Sarpotdar, and Brian Anderson.
The Emperor Has No Clothes 12.03.2026 33:36
This episode features a candid discussion on the realities of DSOs in dentistry, highlighting industry failures, ethical concerns, and the importance of dentists making informed decisions about their practices. Hosts Bob Nate share insights, stories, and call for transparency and honesty among dental professionals. Bottom line...DSOs suck
Right Up to the Edge and Back with Dr. Joe Feller 28.02.2026 1:19:12
In this conversation, Nate and Dr. Joe Feller discuss the complexities and challenges faced by orthodontists when considering selling their practices to DSOs. Dr. Feller shares his personal journey in orthodontics, his experiences with DSOs, and the reasons he ultimately decided against selling his practice. The discussion highlights the emotional and financial stakes involved in such decisions, t...
When Your Reputation Precedes You with Jonathan Martin 18.02.2026 44:04
In a conversation between two of the most soothing voices on the internet, Bob Spiel interviews Jonathan Martin, a CPA with extensive experience in dental transitions. They discuss the complexities of selling dental practices, the myths surrounding DSOs, and the importance of financial planning for dentists. Jonathan emphasizes that many dentists are not adequately prepared for retirement and ofte...
A Conversation With The Dental Banker Bob Affleck 05.02.2026 1:06:09
In this conversation, Bob Affleck shares his extensive experience in the dental industry, discussing the implications of selling dental practices to DSOs. He highlights the challenges and regrets many dentists face after selling, particularly regarding autonomy and financial expectations. The discussion also covers the importance of leadership and business acumen for young dentists preparing them...
Right Up to the Edge and Back with Dr. Blake Maxfield 14.01.2026 1:05:19
Nate sits down with Dr. Blake Maxfield on this amazing interview with a practicing doctor who went through the entire courting and recruitment process where he almost signed the dotted line for a DSO to purchase his practice. At the last minute, something didn't feel right and he backed out. Because he listened to his gut (and his wife) things are infinitely better in his life and current practice...
The Great Disappearing Trick: DSO Equity 07.01.2026 22:51
In this episode, hosts Bob and Nate delve into the myths surrounding DSOs, particularly focusing on the allure of DSO equity. They discuss the reality of ownership structures, the dilution of shares, and the potential pitfalls of believing in inflated equity promises. The conversation emphasizes the importance of maintaining control over one's practice and making informed decisions about practice...
When Are You The Partner...Or The One Being Taken Advantage Of With Dr. Maksim Montatskiy 10.12.2025 40:17
In this conversation, Dr. Maksim Montatskiy sits down with Bob and Nate to discuss the complexities of partnerships, particularly focusing on the value and decision-making dynamics involved. He expresses concerns about the nature of partnerships where he feels more like a paying associate than an equal partner, questioning the benefits and decision-making power he holds within these collaborations...
Too Big to Sell: Myth vs Reality 15.11.2025 25:55
The conversation explores the myth surrounding the belief that dental practices are too large to sell to private buyers. It delves into the origins of this misconception and its impact on the dental community, emphasizing that size should not deter practice owners from considering private buyers.
Practice Transition Advice with Dan and Aaron Lewis 30.10.2025 1:13:27
In this conversation, Nate speaks with Dan and Aaron Lewis about the complexities of dental practice transitions, particularly focusing on the implications of selling to Dental Service Organizations (DSOs). They discuss the emotional aspects of practice transitions, the financial realities of selling to DSOs versus maintaining private practice, and the importance of relationships in the dental ind...
A Very Important Math Lesson 17.10.2025 28:01
Bob and Nate are back to discuss the common misconception that DSOs pay more for dental practices than private buyers and they are bringing receipts. They delve into the concept of EBITDA, explaining its significance in practice valuation and how it impacts the financial outcomes for practice owners. Through a hypothetical example, they illustrate the true costs associated with selling to a DSO, r...
Season 4 Episode 6 - Listener Question: Practice Transition Walkthrough 07.09.2025 21:54
In this episode of 'Just Say No to the DSO', hosts Bob and Nate discuss the complexities of transitioning dental practices, particularly for those with multiple locations. They address listener questions about ownership options, financing, and the importance of goodwill in practice valuation. The conversation emphasizes the need for clear pathways to ownership and the potential pitfalls of seller...
Season 4 Episode 5 - The Art of Transitioning Your Dental Practice 25.08.2025 22:22
Bob and Nate discuss the complexities of transitioning a dental practice without selling to a DSO. They explore the concept of a walk away sale, addressing common uncertainties and fears among practice owners. The conversation also debunks prevalent myths about the dental market, particularly regarding younger dentists' willingness to own practices and the availability of financing for buyers. The...
Season 4 Episode 4 - Embracing Uncertainty: The Reality of Dental Practice Transitions 16.08.2025 34:23
In this conversation, Bob and Nate discuss the complexities of transitioning a dental practice, particularly focusing on the implications of selling to a DSO versus bringing on an associate. They explore the emotional and financial uncertainties that dentists face when considering their exit strategies, emphasizing the importance of planning and understanding the realities of practice management....
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