Allen Berger & Thom Rutledge

Emotional Sobriety: The Next Step in Recovery

Health EN ↓ 200 episodes

Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholic's Anonymous, wrote in 1952, "If we examine every disturbance we have, great or small, we will find at the root some unhealthy dependence and its consequent demand." Wilson suggested that if we could identify and continually surrender these unrealistic and unrecognizable demands, that we may then be able to accomplish what he imagined to be recovery's next frontier - something he called emotional sobriety. Flash forward 70 years, and join psychotherapists and best-selling authors Thom Rutledge and Dr. Allen Berger, who have taken up the mantle of exploring B...

Author

Allen Berger & Thom Rutledge

Category

Health

Podcast website

abphd.com

Latest episode

Jul 6, 2026

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Episodes

Adding Self to Intimate Relationships 13.06.2022

How do we handle disruptions in our closest relationships with this new mentality of emotional balance and greater “differentiation?” With Patrick as this week’s guinea pig, Allen and Thom workshop some practical solutions to “convey rather than convince” in touchy conversations with our significant others.   Follow us on social media. Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod Instagram: thomrutledge2   Register fo...

Love vs. Dependency 06.06.2022

Having recently returned from his brother’s funeral, Thom reflects on the role Emotional Sobriety has played in his personal growth after a 23 year separation from his family. We also wrap up our earlier conversation about marriage and relationships - “people growers” that test our capacity to be “self governing” rather than unhealthily dependent on our partners.   Follow us on social media. Twitt...

Milestones in Early Recovery 30.05.2022

On this Memorial Day producer Patrick, coming up on his fourth year of continuous sobriety, chats with Allen about the role his relationships, step work, and service to others has played in his return from the depths of addiction. Moving away from an “I’m okay if” to an “I’m okay EVEN if” mentality is a recovery battle very much still being waged. PRODUCER'S NOTE: This is a new recording and edit...

Grief and Flexibility 16.05.2022

Following the sudden passing of Thom’s older brother Mike, we discuss the grief and reflection that accompanies tragedy through an emotionally sober lens.   Follow us on social media. Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod Instagram: thomrutledge2   Email Thom: thomrutledgeauthor@gmail.com Email Allen: abphd@msn.com   Allen’s first book, Love Secrets Revealed , referred to in the episode: https://www.amazon.com/...

Mother's Day 08.05.2022

This holiday we observe cooperating rather than compromising with our loved ones in gift giving and receiving. For those with good or bad experiences with their moms. No matter what you’ve suffered, depending on how you work with it, you can start to integrate that experience and grow from it. Join us for Thom and Allen's in-person Emotional Sobriety workshop this June 26th at Harmony Hollow in PA...

Navigating Marriage (Part One) 02.05.2022

“The truth will set you free, but only if you have the courage to live it.” After a check-in about upcoming workshops and events, Allen digs deep into his own history and chats with Thom about his first marriage, and the touchstones it helped him reach. Next week we'll continue to discuss marriage and relationships in the context of Emotional Sobriety.   Follow us on social media. Twitter: @EmSobr...

Showing Up for Ourselves 25.04.2022

Allen returns along with therapist Brian Lutz to expand on our chat with Thom last week about recovery and Gestalt therapy. To overcome obstacles in our journey towards greater emotional balance, we need to “name it to tame it” - articulating what those obstacles are to find the proper solution.   Follow us on social media. Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod Instagram: thomrutledge2   Email Thom: thomrutledg...

Therapeutic Improv with Brian Lutz 17.04.2022

Psychotherapist, Brian Lutz, joins Thom and Producer Patrick for a discussion about our INTRApersonal worlds. In discussing the ideas behind Brian's and Thom's upcoming workshop, INTRApersonal IMPROV, the two of them share a demonstration of therapeutic improvisation.    Our podcast has been selected as one of the  Top 70 Sobriety Podcasts  on the web from Feedspot - the internet’s Largest Human C...

Conflict Resolution: Taking Emotional Sobriety into Traffic 11.04.2022

Producer Patrick Newman and Thom Rutledge have a conversation about having conversations --- specifically about having difficult conversations in new improved ways with our recovery experience.   Links from the episode:   Simple Truth: Ideas & Experiences for People from Less than Perfect Families.  Thom's first book includes chapter titled "Conversations to Convey." Only available from Thom's...

Practical Solutions to Challenging Perfectionism 04.04.2022

To try and push back against our self-defeating perfectionist urges, we see that voice as a distinct part of our consciousness, not “the one in charge.” Projecting a more positive vision of ourselves. Trusting the process. Managing expectations more effectively. Being more compassionate.   Follow us on social media! Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod Instagram: thomrutledge2   Email Thom: thomrutledgeauthor@...

Episode Forty-Five: Perfectionism is a Destructive Belief System 28.03.2022

For many of us, defeating our crushing sense of perfectionism is the crux of our struggle towards living a more peaceful, emotionally balanced life. In the course of discussing this, Allen talks about his dear departed friend and colleague Chris. Next week we’ll delve into further practical solutions.   Follow us on social media. Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod Instagram: thomrutledge2   Email Thom: thomr...

Episode Forty-Four: Emotional Sobriety as Philosophy (Part Two) 20.03.2022

Thom shares further thoughts on psychology and philosophy, which Allen relates to existentialism. All have a useful context in our journey towards greater emotional freedom. Next week, we do a deep dive on perfectionism. Thom’s essay: Psychology is the study of how our minds work. Philosophy pans back for a much bigger picture, an expansive view that inspires us to wonder how the whole universe wo...

Episode Forty-Three: Emotional Sobriety as Philosophy (Part One) 06.03.2022

The practice of emotional sobriety ultimately requires that we live in congruence with a personal value system. In order to do that, we must examine our personal values at the deepest level. Let’s talk with each other about what we know about what we believe - and what we each consider to be our personal growing edge.   Follow us on social media! Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod Instagram: thomrutledge2  ...

Episode Forty-Two: Summarizing “12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety” 01.03.2022

This week Allen rejoins us to do a final wrap-up of his book, revisiting concepts of differentiation and equating emotional sobriety with emotional freedom.   Follow us on social media! Twitter: @EmSobrietyPod Instagram: thomrutledge2   Email Thom: thomrutledgeauthor@gmail.com Email Allen: abphd@msn.com   Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essenti...

Episode Forty-One: Busting Shame with Dr. Shawn Horn 21.02.2022

Thom has a wide-ranging discussion this week with shame busting psychologist, author, and TEDx speaker Dr. Shawn Horn. Revisiting the multiplicity of thought, the “should monster”, negative narcissism. Running the committee of our emotions like an efficient organization, and finding hope in the therapeutic process.   About Shawn Horn PsyD: Dr. Shawn Horn is a licensed clinical psychologist, author...

Episode Forty: Paddling Your Own Canoe 14.02.2022

Here we begin our discussion of the final chapter in Allen’s book, which uses the metaphor of navigating troubled waters in a canoe to explore the struggle for emotional stability. We attempt to synthesize it all in a sort of Emotional Sobriety Step 12.   For Valentines Day, Thom's gift book, “What Love Is” could really come in handy… https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1542697344/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_...

Episode Thirty-Nine: Jefferson Ross and "Southern Currency" 07.02.2022

Thom and Producer Patrick are joined by Jefferson Ross, artist/singer/songwriter to talk about emotional sobriety. Also includes some stories from the old days as Jefferson and Thom are old friends. We are grateful to have Jefferson's permission to use his music as intro and wrap up for our podcast. If listeners are not familiar with his music, we encourage you to check it out:  jeffersonross.com...

Episode Thirty-Eight: Holding Onto Ourselves in Relationships (Part Two) 30.01.2022

Continuing discussion of the 14th chapter of Allen’s 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety . This week we explore the roles self-differentiation (INTRApersonally) and differentiation with others (interpersonally) play in keeping us emotionally grounded despite whatever challenges our most vital relationships present to us.   For Valentines Day, Thom's gift book, “What Love Is” could come in...

Episode Thirty-Seven: Holding Onto Ourselves in Relationships (Part One) 24.01.2022

Saving the toughest insight for last, here we discuss holding onto ourselves in contexts that involve other people and unpredictable circumstances. Emotional Sobriety isn’t something we do on our own that much. Most of the practice is how we relate to the hard facts of the universe, to ourselves, our fortunes and misfortunes, and our history, to family and friends, and most difficult of all: to th...

Episode Thirty-Six: Allen’s Sponsor (Part Two) 17.01.2022

Concluding our in-depth conversation with Tom M., Allen’s sponsor of 50 years. In this episode he tells some spectacular stories about 12-step calls in Hawaii and spreading the message of recovery to places like Iran. He also describes his first meeting with Allen on a Marine Corps. air base.   Follow our new Twitter handle @EmSobrietyPod   Allen’s new book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sob...

Episode Thirty-Five: Allen’s Sponsor (Part One) 10.01.2022

The first part of a longer conversation with Tom M., Allen’s sponsor of 50 years. Tom breaks down his journey from addiction towards getting into a place of love and service and becoming an open channel, a winding road that's taken him to Iran and on 12 Step calls in Kailua.   Allen’s new book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sob...

Episode Thirty-Four: Living a Purposeful Life (Part Two) 03.01.2022

Emotional Sobriety offers us the opportunity to leave the tricks and tools of manipulation behind to make our gifts and talents real in the world through service. “One of the fundamental issues for all human beings is to know that they are useful. Without that you are a shell of a person.”    Allen’s new book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insigh...

Episode Thirty-Three: Living a Purposeful Life (Part One) 27.12.2021

Just in time for the end of the year, we arrive at the closing stretch of Allen’s 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety . Finding our purpose, meaning and utility in life is the crux of our work in recovery. This concept intersects with the twelfth step of AA, in which we share what we have learned with others and practice these principles in all our affairs. According to the the late Dr. D...

Episode Thirty-Two: Healing Through Forgiveness (Part Two) 20.12.2021

How can we release ourselves from our own attachment to our pain? This week we clarify a practical and useful definition for forgiveness, touching on grief, “naming it to claim it” and not personalizing the wrongs inflicted.   Allen’s new book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/   Thom's book,  Embracing Fear...

Episode Thirty-One: Brian Cuban on Recovery & Self-Hate 14.12.2021

Today we welcome returning guest Carol Carter and bestselling author and attorney Brian Cuban to discuss Brian's new book “The Ambulance Chaser.” Through a morass of eating disorders, addiction and self-hate, he tracks his recovery journey towards a happier place of “okay with being Brian.”   More about Brian Cuban: https://briancuban.com/   Buy The Ambulance Chaser: https://www.amazon.com/Ambulan...

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