Second Nature

Dan Coe, who writes The Brand Report and spent years at Nike, joins Aaron and Dylan to break down the "primitives" he believes decide whether a young brand survives. Marketing technology keeps changing and the funnel has collapsed into a single swipe, but Dan argues that why people buy hasn't changed, and that the basics are where small brands can beat big ones. They work through three of them: kn...

The Bro Pod is back! Dylan returns to Second Nature for a proper catch up after a summer on the road, and he and Aaron catch up on the year so far. Dylan looks back on his Hardrock experience, an incredibly booked up summer, and the slump that arrives every October. Aaron shares what seven years of consistency finally looks like: every Super Rider platform now past 100,000 followers, and no longer...

Lizzie Shilko wore the same busted ski helmet for more than 10 years, the foam coming loose from its shell, and every year she looked for a replacement worth buying and found nothing she liked. So she wrote a business plan in her notes app and built the helmet herself. Now just over a year into Revi, she joins Second Nature to trace the path from that note to product on retail shelves: why putting...

Allie Melnick, co-founder of Climatic, joins Second Nature to talk about building an entirely new health category: proactive lung health. A ten-year veteran of Harry's (now Mammoth Brands), Melnick explains why breathing, not legs, not sleep, not gut health, might be the next frontier in everyday performance, and what it actually takes to convince people a problem exists before you can sell them t...

John Schade first discovered Dry Brew:a patented, waterless, ready-to-eat cup of coffee, while searching for something better than a mediocre coffee gummy he'd seen on Shark Tank. He reached out to the original founders immediately. It took over five years, and a random cold email in 2024, before he finally got the chance to help build it. In this conversation, recorded after meeting at Outdoor Re...

Hamish and Hannah Acland, co-founders of Mons Royale, join Second Nature to tell the story of building a global merino wool brand from Wanaka, New Zealand. The brand started with an email titled "Anatomy of an Idea" that brought the two of them together. They talk through the founding insight that base layers were the one piece of ski gear nobody had bothered to make exciting, and how they set out...

Angie Burnett has spent over a decade in affiliate marketing — starting with coupon sites at 1-800 Contacts, moving through fashion e-commerce, and now leading influencer and affiliate partnerships at Backcountry, a 30-year-old brand she's helped modernize for the creator economy. Recorded live at Outdoor Retailer, this conversation goes deep on what most people get wrong about affiliate marketing...

YJ Tung is building Foresthill Basecamp — a performance lodge with ten modular cabins at mile 62 of the Western States Trail, featuring saunas, cold plunges, and everything an endurance athlete could want after a long day on the trail. The idea started after a three-hour delirious drive home from his first ultra, and it's now becoming real through a combination of validation, relationship-building...

Hilary Fenet just pulled off one of the most talked-about brand activations at UTMB — a full hotel takeover in Chamonix for Rabbit, complete with a clubhouse for the week, community breakfasts, and an espresso cart in the parking lot. But the company behind it, Halo, started with a much smaller and much less glamorous moment: Hilary booking a hotel on the wrong side of a mountain before a race in...

Taylor Hoekstra spent years selling products through an unlikely channel — farmer YouTubers — years before anyone called it the "creator economy." That experience taught him something most people in the outdoor industry hadn't figured out yet, and it planted the seed for Popfly. Before writing a line of code, Taylor spent two years and roughly 500 conversations validating the idea, testing a simpl...

Today, we're sharing something a little different. My longtime friend Rebecca Rusch invited me onto her podcast, What's The Rusch, to talk about navigating transitions: the ones we choose, and the ones that choose us. Rebecca and I have known each other for over 20 years, since my days as her athlete manager at Red Bull, and this conversation covers a lot of ground: my own path from Red Bull into...

Second Nature Listener Survey: https://surveymars.com/q/inCNkLas9 Alyssa Olenick, known online as Doc Lyss, has spent the last eight years building a seven-figure fitness and training business while simultaneously earning a PhD in exercise physiology. She started with $35-a-month one-on-one coaching over Google Sheets and a MacBook that literally overheated. Today she runs a training app, a coachi...

Second Nature Listener Survey: https://surveymars.com/q/inCNkLas9 Gary Vernon, Scott King, and Aimee Ross have been building what is now one of the most significant mountain bike destinations in the world. What started in 2006 as a five-mile trail system in Bentonville, Arkansas has grown into 600 miles of trail across the region, 1,200 miles statewide, and most recently, a lift-access bike park w...

Annijke Wade became an adaptive mountain biker in 2021 after a downhill accident left her with a spinal cord injury. Four years later, she's racing at events like SBT Gravel and Sea Otter Classic, running a nonprofit called Dirt Bound that develops para athletes, building a content strategy sophisticated enough to land her in a Meta Creator program, and already planning for goals she can't quite r...

Jill Nazeer is the brand marketing manager at Salsa Cycles and one of the most experienced athlete and content marketers in the bike industry. Before Salsa, she was at Diamondback during one of the most interesting periods in mountain bike content history: when Seth from Berm Peak was just a guy with a cool YouTube channel, and Eric Porter was figuring out what adventure content could look like. S...

Tina and Madison started SENIQ after nearly a decade building careers at Victoria's Secret and Backcountry — and it turns out the most important lessons they carried into their brand came from a lingerie company, not an outdoor retailer. Growing up in a world where women sat on every leadership team and product innovation was the quarterback of the business shaped how they think about building SEN...

Tommie Runz started running in 2018, a year after choosing sobriety, and began documenting the journey simply because it felt good to share progress and get encouragement. Seven years later, he's built an audience of over 30,000 through nothing but consistency and honesty — no viral moments, no big follower jumps, just a steady climb built entirely on trust. In this conversation, Tommie and Aaron...

Steve Holmberg and Matt Trappe are back for a debrief on one of the biggest weeks in trail running — Broken Arrow, Western States, and everything in between at TrailCon. Steve breaks down his state-of-the-industry analysis: why trail running's rebrand from "ultra running" unlocked massive new participation, why the sport is about to fragment the way mountain biking did decades ago, and why brands...

Matt Oesterle built his first company, Callisto Media, from zero to $85 million in revenue by using data to disrupt the book publishing industry. Then he sold it to Penguin Random House and asked himself: what's the next industry that hasn't been forced to evolve? The answer was camping — an industry whose biggest brands were founded in the 1960s and haven't changed much since. In this conversatio...

Martyn Ashton spent two decades as one of the most influential trials riders in the world — making the smallest, most niche discipline of mountain biking accessible and exciting for a global audience through videos, shows, and a personality that made everyone feel like they could try it. In 2013, a crash during a stunt show left him paralyzed. Now he's doing the exact same thing all over again — t...

Ross McGraw has had one of the more interesting career arcs in the outdoor industry — from Nike's NYC Run program to Vice Media and Viacom, to helping build Hammerhead through its acquisition by SRAM, and now leading commercial efforts at CORE, the company changing how elite athletes think about heat. In this conversation, Ross breaks down the science of heat training in plain language — why 80% o...

Mattie Sims has built brands at Lululemon, Electronic Arts, Reef, and Rally Pickleball — and along the way developed a framework for brand building that most founders skip entirely. Now she's applying everything she's learned to two ventures at once: Courier, a performance sock brand built around the idea of the "Renaissance athlete," and Mate the Agency, a brand strategy firm working with founder...

Tom Austen is the founder of Pelotan, the world's first sun performance brand, and co-founder of Chance, a trail running apparel brand he's building with pro athlete and serial entrepreneur Christian Meier. Both brands are based in Girona, Spain — a two-square-kilometer pocket of world-class endurance athletes, cafes, and startups that's become the Boulder of Europe. In this conversation, Tom walk...

Bill Shufelt was a hedge fund analyst who didn't drink, couldn't find a non-alcoholic beer worth ordering, and one night his wife spun him around on a sidewalk and told him to do something about it. Eight years later, Athletic Brewing has 300 employees, four breweries, over a million barrels of capacity, and has almost single-handedly turned non-alcoholic beer from a stigmatized afterthought into...

Morgan Tuohy is seven days into the launch of Dera, a trail running belt brand built around a BOA-style dial closure that nobody's tried before in the category. He sold out of two sizes in under eight hours, shipped hundreds of belts from his living room until 3 AM, and had $500 left in his bank account two days before launch. He's 27 years old. In this conversation, Morgan walks through the full...