Second Nature

Matt Oesterle built his first company, Callisto Media, from zero to $85 million in revenue by using data to disrupt the book publishing industry. Then he sold it to Penguin Random House and asked himself: what's the next industry that hasn't been forced to evolve? The answer was camping — an industry whose biggest brands were founded in the 1960s and haven't changed much since. In this conversatio...

Martyn Ashton spent two decades as one of the most influential trials riders in the world — making the smallest, most niche discipline of mountain biking accessible and exciting for a global audience through videos, shows, and a personality that made everyone feel like they could try it. In 2013, a crash during a stunt show left him paralyzed. Now he's doing the exact same thing all over again — t...

Ross McGraw has had one of the more interesting career arcs in the outdoor industry — from Nike's NYC Run program to Vice Media and Viacom, to helping build Hammerhead through its acquisition by SRAM, and now leading commercial efforts at CORE, the company changing how elite athletes think about heat. In this conversation, Ross breaks down the science of heat training in plain language — why 80% o...

Mattie Sims has built brands at Lululemon, Electronic Arts, Reef, and Rally Pickleball — and along the way developed a framework for brand building that most founders skip entirely. Now she's applying everything she's learned to two ventures at once: Courier, a performance sock brand built around the idea of the "Renaissance athlete," and Mate the Agency, a brand strategy firm working with founder...

Tom Austen is the founder of Pelotan, the world's first sun performance brand, and co-founder of Chance, a trail running apparel brand he's building with pro athlete and serial entrepreneur Christian Meier. Both brands are based in Girona, Spain — a two-square-kilometer pocket of world-class endurance athletes, cafes, and startups that's become the Boulder of Europe. In this conversation, Tom walk...

Bill Shufelt was a hedge fund analyst who didn't drink, couldn't find a non-alcoholic beer worth ordering, and one night his wife spun him around on a sidewalk and told him to do something about it. Eight years later, Athletic Brewing has 300 employees, four breweries, over a million barrels of capacity, and has almost single-handedly turned non-alcoholic beer from a stigmatized afterthought into...

Morgan Tuohy is seven days into the launch of Dera, a trail running belt brand built around a BOA-style dial closure that nobody's tried before in the category. He sold out of two sizes in under eight hours, shipped hundreds of belts from his living room until 3 AM, and had $500 left in his bank account two days before launch. He's 27 years old. In this conversation, Morgan walks through the full...

Steve Holmberg is one of our favorite recurring guests, and this time, he showed up with something nobody expected. Over the holidays, Steve went from zero coding experience to a fully functional AI-powered app called Field Check, built using the vibe coding platform Lovable. The app connects retail store associates directly to brand product and marketing teams through AI-driven chats that go deep...

Maren Hamilton ran global social at The North Face — building and executing a strategy for 5.5 million followers, integrating athletes and creators, and navigating every platform shift from the follow graph to the discovery graph. Then she left to help build Popfly, the creator platform built specifically for the outdoor industry. In this conversation, Maren shares the playbook she developed at TN...

Matt Trappe is a photographer, filmmaker, creative strategist, and the voice behind the Matter of Brand newsletter: one of the most consistently sharp reads on brand building in the outdoor space. In this conversation, Matt and Aaron dig into why leading with innovation and tech has become table stakes rather than a differentiator, the three elements that make a brand story actually stick, and why...

Most outdoor brands have a YouTube problem. They're just not talking about it. Jeff Pelletier is a filmmaker, trail running creator, and one of the most thoughtful students of YouTube strategy and in the outdoor space. In this episode he breaks down why most brand channels are underperforming and what to actually do about it. We cover the difference between consistency and familiarity, why athlete...

Michael Rueckert was a ski resort marketing director who got curious about a simple question: when someone asks an AI where to ski, does Snow Basin show up? That curiosity led him down a rabbit hole that eventually became Centium AI, a platform now working with over 170 outdoor brands to help them understand and improve their visibility across every major AI model. In this conversation, Michael an...

We hosted a Second Nature meetup with everyone at the Sea Otter Classic, and pulled a handful of friends up to the microphone to have conversations about everything happening in the industry and in their world at large.  Jeremy Dunn, Braydon Bringhurst, Eric Porter, Tom Austen, Rachel Fussell, Steve Blick and Yuri Hauswald joined Aaron on the stage to chat through the lessons they've learned and t...

What if bikes could transform cities, create economies, and solve problems nobody thought they were for? We're joined today by Peter Abraham, one of the most connected strategic minds in the bike industry, just ahead of Sea Otter Classic. We cover a lot of ground: the state of the bike industry after a brutal few years, why e-bikes are reaching people the legacy brands never could, what London and...

150 episodes. Two years. No shortage of stuff happening. On this milestone bro pod, we take stock of where Second Nature has been — and where things are heading. Digging into what's actually changed in 2026: what we've removed, working with an executive coach, launching a live weekly show, and opening the first mountain bike retail store in Shenzhen, China. Plus a real conversation about the grind...

Floris Gierman has it all: he's an author, content creator, co-founder of a running apparel brand, and so much more. His approach in hindsight seems methodical and measured in its approach, but the truth is that this all came around from years of consistent, small steps. In this episode, we dig into the day-to-day as well as the big picture of Floris Gierman's world. This episode is supported by P...

The Evolution of Brands, Athletes and Creators If there's one thing for certain, it's that nothing ever stays the same - doubly so if you're a brand in the outdoor space or an athlete or creator. Over the past year, we've had so many discussions about what's working, the right way to approach it, and how it has evolved. Jonathan Levitt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jlevitt815/ Small Shows Hit Diffe...

Recently, two long-standing outdoor industry businesses, Alpenglow Expeditions and Thomson Bike Tours, were acquired by Milky Way Park. But while acquisitions are nothing new to the outdoor industry, the way it came together (and continues to develop) is worth a closer look. On this episode, iconic athlete and Alpenglow founder Adrian Ballinger joins Milky Way Park's founder Matthew Lloyd-Thomas t...

The Future Of Investing In The Outdoor Industry Mel Strong made a meaningful impression during her first appearance on the podcast, and we've got her back on the podcast again to demystify how brands can raise capital, how to speak to boards and VCs, and to answer the all-important question...should we have our own venture fund? Show Notes: Mel Strong: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanie-strong/ M...

Uplifting Talent In The Outdoor Industry Rachael Burnside saw an opportunity to build a stronger community of women in the bike industry by connecting experienced mentors with mentees, which would help build and retain top talent. The fifth round of the Uplift mentorship program is now underway, and in our conversation, Rachael breaks down the playbook of what it took to build this program - and h...

The Roadmap Of Rumpl Wylie Robinson co-founded Rumpl over a decade ago, bringing an idea to life in the way that every outdoor entrepreneur dreams of doing. Over that time, he's experienced the twists and turns, ups and downs, and during this introspective discussion, we dig into the roadmap and the lessons he's learned from the journey (so far). Show Notes: Wylie Robinson: https://www.linkedin.co...

Uncovering The Fear Of Success Christian Rawles joins the podcast today for an extremely open and honest discussion about career, success, and how we approach our work. Christian has inspired so many thought-provoking conversations offline, we had to get him on the podcast to share his wisdom and insights with everyone. This is a special episode, we hope you enjoy it! Christian Rawles: https://www...

The Past, Present and Future of Des Linden After winning the Boston Marathon, writing a book, hosting a giant running podcast...what's next? We caught up with Des Linden to talk about her career so far, but more importantly, where she's heading next. Show Notes: Des Linden: https://www.instagram.com/des_linden/ Nobody Asked Us (Podcast): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-asked-us-with-d...

The Outdoor Brand Spending $1 MILLION On Ads (Every Month) You could've heard a pin drop at Outdoor Media Summit when Brian Davis told the audience his brand spends one million dollars on ads every month. But how did he get here? In this week's episode, we got to dive into Brian's history of launching and building brands - and the conversation that followed did not disappoint. Show Notes: Brian Da...

How To Write A Book About Running Raziq Rauf is the author behind "This Is Running" a new book that comes out in a few short months. Raz is also the author behind Running Sucks on Substack, and in this episode we dig into the process of becoming a published author, along with all the necessary hurdles to get over the hurdles to making it happen. Show Notes: Raziq Rauf: https://www.linkedin.com/in/...