Peaceful Exit

When Danielle Crittenden Frum's daughter Miranda died suddenly at just 32 years old, the longtime journalist and author started covering her own grief like a news story. The result is her book, "Dispatches from Grief," in which she reports from what she refers to as the Alternative Universe of a bereaved parent. In this interview, Danielle tells Sarah why losing Miranda "exploded everything," and...

Cartoonist Roz Chast is best known for her work in The New Yorker , and for her 2014 graphic memoir, "Can't We Talk About Something More Pleasant?" In this episode, Roz tells Sarah about the diverse challenges of caring for aging parents, the complicated grief of never quite connecting with her mother, and why humor can help us express what's often hardest to say. They also discuss Roz's new book,...

Dr. Jackie Ogden is a behavioral psychologist who spent her career working in leadership positions at world-renowned institutions like the San Diego Zoo and Disney's Animal Kingdom. In this episode, Jackie tells Sarah what animal behavior can teach us about grief and mortality, and why it's critical for conservation efforts to be about people, in addition to animals. Then, Jackie talks candidly ab...

Paisley Rekdal, a former poet laureate of Utah, has spent her career writing about history, memory, and loss. These include her own personal losses, as well as collective losses, like from war and immigration. In this episode, Paisley tells Sarah about caring for her father as he died, the complicated emotions that came from that experience, and what poetry uniquely offers grievers. They also disc...

Glaciologist Twila Moon studies Earth's ice, the glaciers and ice sheets that have built up over millennia, but that are now disappearing much more rapidly. In this episode, Twila and Sarah talk about the visceral sensory experience of standing next to a living glacier, and what it's like to watch something that once felt permanent, something that has animated her heart and mind for decades, vanis...

Estate planning attorney Brittany Cook helps people get their legal affairs in order before they die, and in this episode she and Sarah dig into everything you need to know about wills, trusts, powers of attorney, executors, and why it's never a "set it and forget it" exercise. Brittany breaks down what happens when someone dies without a plan, why communicating your wishes matters just as much as...

Psychologist and author Dr. Elaine Kasket is an expert in what's known as the digital afterlife, and in this episode she tells Sarah about the complex intersection of technology, identity, and grief. Elaine covers topics most of us have never even thought about: the rise of grief bots and AI resurrections, as well as the practical challenges of managing our digital footprints after we die. Elaine...

 Dr. Jessica Zitter and Chaplain Betty Clark have spent over a decade caring for patients together at Highland Hospital in Oakland, California, where Dr. Zitter is a critical and palliative care physician and Betty is the chaplain. Their partnership is at the heart of the documentary, "The Chaplain & The Doctor," and in this episode they tell Sarah what it means to treat the body and the spiri...

Thanatologist, horticulturalist, and author Cole Imperi studies death, dying, grief, loss and bereavement. She says we don't have a taboo around death in our culture - but around grief. In this episode, she and Sarah dive into Cole's pioneered concept of "shadow loss," and they break down the six distinct categories where grief manifests, which she also outlines in her book "A Guide to Grief," for...

When Nancy Howard Cobb wrote "In Lieu of Flowers: A Conversation for the Living" in the year 2000, she was ahead of her time. Little did she know that the cultural appetite for stories about mortality would only continue to grow, and that her book would be republished more than two decades later. In this interview,  Nancy explores the deaths of her parents, the loss of a close friend, and the shat...

Death doula Darnell Lamont Walker, author of "Never Can Say Goodbye: The Life of a Death Doula and the Art of a Peaceful End," came to this work young. At just 12 years old, he sat with his dying cousin during the AIDS crisis. At 13, he helped classmates grieve the death of a friend. Darnell shares with Sarah how his grandma's fearless, open-hearted approach to death shaped those early experiences...

Anne Lamott is known for her piercing honesty, her humor, and her willingness to go to the hard places. She's the New York Times bestselling author of books like "Bird by Bird" and "Traveling Mercies," and she is, appropriately, so many people's favorite writer. In this conversation with Sarah, Anne explores the terrain that has defined so much of her life and writing: loss, grief, faith, and grac...

Alua Arthur is a death doula and a New York Times bestselling author, most recently for her book "Briefly Perfectly Human." In this episode from 2024, Alua shares with Sarah what it was like fleeing Ghana as a child, and how she found her calling in an unexpected conversation on a bus. They also discuss the transformative nature of confronting mortality, why it's important to set boundaries in gri...

At the end of every episode of Peaceful Exit, Sarah asks her guests the same question: what does a peaceful exit mean to you? There have been many overlapping themes in people's responses, but so far no two replies have been exactly the same. In this compilation episode, we revisit the answers from our amazing season 6 guests: Dr. BJ Miller; Dr. Lucy Hone; Lisa Keefauver; Mary Roach; Jenny George;...

As co-director of the Stanford Center on Longevity at Stanford University, geriatrician Dr. Deborah Kado helps patients live not just longer, but better. In this thoughtful interview, she  shares what her earliest patients taught her about the end of life, and what any of us can do - starting now - to age with dignity and purpose. Dr. Kado also explains why, despite what you might think, older peo...

Poet James Crews lost his father when he was just 20 years old, and then, decades later, his mother and both grandmothers died in the same year. In this episode, he talks to Sarah about the different experiences he had with grief across these major losses, and how they've inspired his work, including a number of poems in his latest collection, "Turning Toward Grief." James also explains why even m...

Suzanne O’Brien is founder and CEO of the Doulagivers Institute and author of the book “The Good Death.” She has trained thousands of people around the world in end-of-life care, with a mission to make death literacy accessible to all. She tells Sarah why she believes that dying is not just a medical event, but a sacred transition — one that can be met with preparation, presence, and even peace. I...

Carla Fernandez, author of the book "Renegade Grief," was just 21 years old when her father José died. She felt ill-equipped to handle her grief alone, so she started reaching out to friends. What began as a simple potluck dinner with other young adults who'd also lost parents grew into The Dinner Party, a nationwide movement with tables in over a hundred cities. At these gatherings, grievers shar...

Child life specialist Jessica Correnti helps kids and families navigate loss, change, and big life transitions. In this episode, she tells Sarah why children often experience grief in short emotional "bursts"; why they process grief best through play; and why it's best to talk to kids honestly about death and dying. Jessica also shares  her deeply personal story of pregnancy loss, and how that exp...

Animal chaplain Kaleel Sakakeeny was overwhelmed by grief after the death of his cat Kyro. And even though pet loss is an incredibly common experience, Kaleel felt like he had nowhere to turn. So, he took matters into his own hands: Kaleel became an animal chaplain, an ordained pastor, and a pet loss and bereavement counselor. He also founded the nonprofit Animal Talks, which supports people who'v...

Poet Jenny George was always drawn to writing about death and dying, even before she lost her wife to ovarian cancer. In her latest collection of poems, "After Image," Jenny uses the lens of grief to describe caring for and losing her sweetheart, and to explore what it means to live in the shadow of her death. Jenny tells Sarah about the challenges of writing about dying, and also why her grief so...

Mary Roach is a New York Times bestselling author and acclaimed science writer who once thought science was boring. She has traveled the world and written fascinating, humorous books about the human body and its curiosities. Today she discusses three of them with Sarah: "Stiff," "Six Feet Over," and her latest, "Replaceable You." They also talk about how our culture got so squeamish about dead bod...

It's time for the annual holiday episode, and this year we're revisiting a few of our favorite conversations from 2025. (It was tough to pick, they are all favorites!) You'll hear excerpts from Sarah's interviews with puppeteer Basil Twist; death educator Joél Simone; poet Danusha Laméris; journalist Oliver Burkeman; and writer-illustrator duo Suzy Hopkins and Hallie Bateman. Each of these guests...

Social worker Lisa Keefauver was just 40 years old when her husband died from cancer in her arms. She has since become an outspoken grief activist, helping people identify, understand, live with, and talk about their grief through her book and podcast, "Grief Is a Sneaky Bitch." Lisa tells Sarah why scuba diving is a metaphor for life, how to metabolize your grief over a lifetime, and what to do w...

Psychologist Dr. Lucy Hone studies resilience, a topic that hit especially close to home when her 12-year old daughter Abi and two friends were killed in a car crash in 2014. She tells Sarah how her close knowledge of resilience informed her grieving, why humans are hardwired to cope, and what role her grief over Abi plays in her life now. Lucy also shares practical tips for anyone who is grieving...