Trial Tested

Former federal prosecutor and defense attorney – and co-founder of California Pizza Kitchen – Rick Rosenfield sits down with host James Brown to discuss how the skills developed in the courtroom helped build a successful restaurant brand. Drawing on his experience launching California Pizza Kitchen with his law partner, Rosenfield explores the parallels between trial practice and entrepreneurship,...

Judge A. Howard Matz, former U.S. District Judge for the Central District of California, sits down with host Dave Thomas to explore the concept of judicial independence – what it means in practice and why it matters to the rule of law. Judge Matz discusses his involvement with the Article III Coalition, a nonpartisan group of former federal judges who educate the public about judicial independence...

Michael Burrage made history as the first Native American federal judge to be appointed in the United States. A member of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma, Burrage has spent decades using the law to protect tribal sovereignty, preserve natural resources, and advocate for communities facing injustice. In this conversation with host Renee Rothauge, he reflects on the experiences that shaped his approa...

Dean Strang's career has been anything but conventional. Best known to many as defense counsel featured in Netflix's Making a Murderer, Dean joins host Vince Citro to discuss the experiences that have shaped his decades-long commitment to the pursuit of justice. In this candid conversation, Strang discusses the vital role mentorship has played in his legal career, his philosophy behind launching f...

Host Amy Gunn welcomes trial attorneys Claire Hunter, K.C., Mark Surprenant and Kimball Anderson as they share how pro bono opportunities have shaped their careers – from providing invaluable courtroom experience early in their careers to bringing lasting professional fulfillment through their commitment to access to justice. The conversation highlights the many ways attorneys can contribute, rega...

Drawing on four decades of experience as a federal prosecutor, criminal defense attorney, and trial lawyer, John Lauro sits down with host Vince Citro to reflect on the qualities that define exceptional advocacy: preparation, professionalism, and an unwavering commitment to clients. Lauro, who served as counsel to President Donald Trump in one of the most closely watched criminal cases in recent h...

Why do we instantly click with some people while feeling disconnected from others? In this episode, journalist, and bestselling author Kate Murphy joins host Amy Gunn to discuss her new book, Why We Click, and explores how biological processes influence trust, communication, and persuasion. She highlights why authentic connection is essential to effective advocacy and how skills like active listen...

What does it really take to change the culture of a profession? In this episode of Trial Tested, host James Brown sits down with the Honorable George Strathy, former Chief Justice of Ontario, for a deeply personal and wide-ranging conversation about mental health in the legal profession. Chief Justice Strathy opens about his mother's lifelong struggle with bipolar disorder, a colleague's near-cris...

In this episode, host Dave Thomas is joined by four Fellows of the American College of Trial Lawyers: Michael Critchley, Kevin Marino, Henry Klingeman, and Lawrence Lustberg. Together, they unpack the high-profile prosecution of New Jersey power broker George Norcross III and his co-defendants, arising from a sweeping indictment alleging extortion, coercion, and racketeering. The discussion focuse...

Past President of the American College of Trial Lawyers (ACTL) Fran Wikstrom joins host Vince Citro to reflect on a journey shaped as much by loading docks and dishwashing jobs as by his time at Yale Law School. He discusses how he developed a straightforward, conversational style with juries – relating to them as people rather than an audience. He shares the story of his first jury trial, a homic...

In this episode of Trial Tested, host Amy Gunn welcomes Missy Wright, Kimball Anderson, and John Siffert to explore the importance of mentorship. They discuss how mentoring – rooted in a commitment to civility, professionalism, and the rule of law – has evolved into an initiative pairing experienced ACTL Fellows with first-generation and underserved law students. The conversation highlights mentor...

Join host Sandra Barton for a conversation with Elliot Peters about the unconventional path and pivotal cases that shaped his career. Peters recounts leaving New York University School of Law after his first year, then returning with renewed purpose to pursue trial law. An internship with the Federal Public Defender in Brooklyn deepened his interest in trial advocacy before he gained extensive exp...

In this episode of Trial Tested, Greg Craig traces his journey from achieving his law degree at Yale Law School – where classmates included Hillary Rodham Clinton and Bill Clinton – to a career defined by landmark trials and public service. Early in his career, Craig assisted in the defense of former CIA Director Richard Helms and later helped lead the defense of John Hinckley, Jr. after the shoot...

The College’s 75th President, Rick Deane, sits down with host Amy Gunn in this special Presidents’ Day episode of Trial Tested. Deane reflects on the encouragement of his grandmother and his early fascination with the law, sparked by watching Perry Mason with her as a young boy. He recounts entering the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of Georgia in 1980, and shares early, memorabl...

Trial lawyers live in a constant state of problem-solving, competition, and high stakes – exactly the kind of environment that can quietly push the brain into chronic fight-or-flight. In this episode, host Amy Gunn sits down with University of Denver law professor and lawyer-wellbeing expert Dr. Debra Austin, author of The Legal Brain, to unpack what stress actually does to the lawyer’s mind—and h...

Host Vince Citro welcomes San Francisco attorney Jim Brosnahan to discuss a career shaped by formative childhood illness, early reading struggles, and an outsider’s sense of empathy. He describes his path from Boston College athlete to Harvard Law School, where he met his wife, Carol – later a judge – and reflects on early work as a federal prosector that affirmed his love of the courtroom. Brosna...

Judge William Alsup of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California joins host Renée Rothauge to reflect on how his civil rights-era upbringing in Mississippi, his clerkship for U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas – where he contributed to Roe v. Wade and Sierra Club v. Morton – and his experiences as a trial attorney all shaped his judicial philosophy. He discusses hi...

In this episode, Dave Thomas interviews Bart Dalton, former Delaware Chief Deputy Attorney General and 67th President of the American College of Trial Lawyers. Dalton reflects on his early career as a prosecutor, emphasizing how mistakes provide valuable opportunities to learn and grow as a trial attorney. After transitioning to private practice, he built a distinguished career, including represen...

Chicago attorney Chet Kamin joins host Amy Gunn to discuss his role in the landmark Stamler v. Willis litigation, which helped bring about the end of the House Un-American Activities Committee. Arguing that Dr. Jeremiah Stamler was targeted for his political beliefs, Kamin and his colleagues challenged the committee’s activities as unconstitutional and a violation of free expression. He reflects o...

Host Vince Citro welcomes Benjamin Chew, an acclaimed trial lawyer perhaps best known for representing Johnny Depp in the highly publicized defamation trial against Amber Heard. In this in-depth interview, Chew discusses his work on complex commercial disputes, international arbitration, and high-profile celebrity cases that make headlines around the world. He reflects on the challenges of advocat...

* Please be advised that this episode discusses sensitive topics, including sexual abuse, and is intended for a mature audience. Bill Barton joins host Renee Rothauge for a candid and compelling conversation about the experiences that shaped his journey to becoming one of the most respected – and intriguing – plaintiff lawyers in the United States. Known for his groundbreaking work bringing the fi...

Justice Mahmud Jamal of the Supreme Court of Canada joins host Sandra Barton to share his journey from immigrant roots to Canada’s highest court. He offers a behind-the-scenes look at the collaborative and often philosophical work of judging, from preparing decisions to constitutional interpretation in a changing society. Justice Jamal also explores the evolving role of the judiciary in upholding...

Texas trial attorney Chip Babcock joins host Mike Herring to reflect on a career shaped by storytelling, authenticity, and high-profile advocacy. From his early days in journalism to defending headline-making clients like Oprah Winfrey and Dr. Phil, and representing media giants such as Google and Warner Brothers, Babcock shares how credibility and sincerity in the courtroom build trust with jurie...

Canadian criminal defense lawyer Mona Duckett joins host Amy Gunn to share her insights on trial advocacy. Duckett recounts the successful appeal of an 18-year sentence in a manslaughter case involving decades of domestic abuse, arguing the plea warranted greater sentencing parity. She also describes defending a teen boy who was wrongfully charged – twice – with murder, first based on a coerced co...

Peter Canellos, Managing Editor of Politico and author of The Great Dissenter, joins host Renee Rothauge to explore the lasting impact of dissenting opinions in the U.S. Supreme Court through the legacy of Justice John Marshall Harlan. Highlighting landmark decisions such as Plessy v. Ferguson, Canellos explains how Harlan’s once-overlooked dissents became guiding principles for civil rights advoc...