Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal
Things Musicians Don't Talk About
Hattie Butterworth and Rebecca Toal host a podcast of insight and change in the classical music and arts professions. Delving into the often stigmatised worlds of mental health, injury, discrimination and productivity, classical music issues are spoken and revived. Join Hattie, Rebecca and guests for important conversations, inspiring moments of wisdom and poignant vulnerability. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Author
Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal
Category
Podcast website
Latest episode
May 18, 2026
Where to listen?
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Episodes
36. Jocelyn Lightfoot: identity and grief 18.03.2022 1:18:33
Wow, what a conversation we had with Jocelyn. We discuss the London Chamber Orchestra's recent-ish decision to drop their dress code, but before we get into that we talk about her life before being appointed the Managing Director of LCO, and now the CEO of Three Worlds Group. Freelance life is a struggle at the best of times, and we are so so grateful to Jocelyn for speaking so powerfully about he...
35. The One Where They Actually Record Everyone in the Same Room 23.02.2022 45:38
This episode, Hattie and Becca are joined by BOP* Stuart Beard. They chat (unsurprisingly) about life as a freelance musician, Hattie’s big move to London, the Sunk Cost Fallacy, turning opportunities down and general other chatty topics. Listen wherever you usually get your podcasts, and if you can, please leave us a review and subscribe! *(Boyfriend of the Pod) Transcript of this episode Follow...
34. Frances Wilson, The Cross-Eyed Pianist 11.02.2022 1:03:18
Frances Wilson, publicist and writer/blogger extraordinaire talks to Hattie and Rebecca about her blog and other work, her love of live music, lack of creative motivation in lockdown, and what it's like to get to know the artists behind the music. She is most famed for her wonderful blog, The Cross-Eyed Pianist , and her popular series of written interviews, Meet the Artist, that is about to turn...
33. Ollie West: depression, anxiety and suicidal ideation 18.01.2022 52:21
Ollie West is an incredibly talented singer-songwriter, as well as being an avid appreciator of classical music. We speak about his experience with anxiety surrounding traditional music education and about the differences between studying within popular music and classical music. Ollie shares his experiences with anxiety, depression and binge eating disorder. During the pandemic, Ollie's mental he...
32. December chats - medication, rejections and whether art is a way of life 16.12.2021 48:55
TMDTA hosts Rebecca Toal and Hattie Butterworth discuss their experiences taking psychiatric medication following Dr Alex George's PostYourPill campaign. They talk about the stigma and image around being someone with a mental illness within the classical music world and how important campaigns like this are for normalising people's experiences. They also talk over the Royal Opera House's recent me...
31. Anil Umer, live at the Royal Academy of Music 08.12.2021 41:28
During our Musicians' Injury Awareness Week, we interviewed Soft Tissue Therapist and Injury Rehabilitation specialist, Anil Umer about his experience of injury, as someone who has both suffered from one personally and treated others. We thank Anil for his openness and his wisdom! Anil is a freelance cellist, Injury Rehabilitation Specialist and Soft Tissue Therapist. He works both privately and i...
30. Bob Hughes (in full) 27.11.2021 54:46
Last week was our Musicians' Injury Awareness Week and we were absolutely blown away by all the support and love we received before, during and after it. Included in the week was Becca's interview with the lovely Bob Hughes about his journey will Focal Dystonia. Bob said so many amazing things that couldn't be squeezed into just a 20 minute mini-episode, so we're releasing the whole interview toda...
MIAW 2021 - Angela McCuiston 21.11.2021 17:22
Welcome to the final episode in the Musicians' Injury Awareness Week monologue series! It's been the most amazing week of discussion, connection and creativity. We are excited to commit to supporting musicians suffering with injury far beyond this week. Flutist and musicians personal trainer Angela McCuiston speaks to us about her journey with an injury, leading her to further research, study and...
MIAW 2021 - Murphy Robertson 20.11.2021 13:12
It's the inaugural Musicians' Injury Awareness Week, and today's injury story comes from Murphy Robertson. Murphy was studying saxophone at Guildhall School of Music and Drama when she started experiencing chronic pain in her jaw. She talks to us about what happened, and where she went from there. Share your injury stories using the hashtag #MIAW2021 and tag us! The more discussion...
MIAW 2021 - Songeun Choi 19.11.2021 19:49
Songeun Choi talks about her experience with injury from her time at school onwards and how it's affected her ability to play, practise and fulfil commitments. Thank you for your openness and honesty Songeun! Songeun Choi is a soloist and enthusiastic chamber musician. A graduate of the Royal Academy of Music, she studied with William Fong and Diana Ketler. During her studies ,she was supported by...
MIAW 2021 - Bob Hughes 18.11.2021 20:29
It's the inaugural Musicians' Injury Awareness Week, and today's injury story comes from Bob Hughes. A sufferer of focal dystonia, Bob shares with us what it was like to go through such an experience whilst still working and teaching. He talks about the difficulty in trying to find out what exactly was wrong, his trips to see various dystonia specialists, and the support he received...
MIAW 2021 - Sophia Kannathasan 17.11.2021 11:01
Today Sophia Kannathasan tells us about her playing injury, which was diagnosed as golfers elbow. She takes us through the process of grieving playing violin, readjusting her priorities and healing with time, increasing playing incrementally. She also speaks about the rewards of mental practice and score study, both of which still form a part of her violin work. Adamant about giving an honest acco...
MIAW 2021 - Peter Regan 16.11.2021 18:01
Day 2 of the first Musicians' Injury Awareness Week brings us Peter Regan's story. Peter recently graduated from the Royal College of Music and this summer founded Fulham Fest with two friends. In his last year of study, he developed an injury in his hands, affecting not only his playing but also his mental well-being. Luckily, the pandemic seemed to come at just the right time for Peter as...
MIAW 2021 - Francesca Leo 15.11.2021 19:58
Flutist Francesca Leo takes us through her journey of long-term injury, somatic education practices and the process of setting up Playing Without Pain As both flutist and entrepreneur, Francesca has used her own injury experience to connect injured musicians to resources and advice they may need. Share your injury stories using the hashtag #MIAW2021 and tag us! The more discussion, the merrier.&nb...
29. Clare Hammond: the terror of post-natal depression 18.10.2021 52:57
Welcome back! Today Hattie and Rebecca speak with concert pianist Clare Hammond about her experience with generalised anxiety disorder, post-natal depression and how these experiences have lead Clare to performances in schools and prisons. They speak about managing a mental illness as a musician, how it might feel to inhabit a prolonged period of darkness, how and whether to communicate struggle w...
28. Ellie Consta: conforming no more 27.09.2021 46:11
This time on Things Musicians Don't Talk About, we meet Ellie Consta, the founder of Her Ensemble. We talk about the struggles of lockdown, life as a musician, and her growing discomfort with the classical music world as it stands today. These issues together lead her to set up Her Ensemble, the UK's first women and non-binary orchestra, which is taking the classical music scene by storm. Thank yo...
27. Laura van der Heijden: anxiety on stage 09.09.2021 51:44
In today's episode Hattie speaks with the renowned cellist Laura van Der Heijden. Laura won the BBC Young Musician of the Year Award in 2012 at the age of 15 and since then has gone on to establish herself as a concerto soloist and chamber musician in high demand. In the episode Laura and I speak about her ongoing struggles with performance anxiety and how debilitating the experience of performing...
26. Lauren McQuistin: addiction, opera and sobriety 18.08.2021 50:56
This time, Rebecca takes her turn as interviewer. She speaks to the exceptional Lauren McQuistin about her journey through alcoholism and into recovery, and how it has impacted her musical and personal life. Alcohol is such a mainstay of the music industry, classical and otherwise, and Lauren speaks with such honesty and eloquence on this historically taboo subject. The line between what can be se...
25. Melissa Brown: the long haul of OCD 04.08.2021 1:09:33
Hattie speaks with trombonist and fellow podcaster, Melissa Brown about her OCD diagnosis and the impact it has had on Melissa both personally and professionally. We speak about suffering during music college, the reality of living every minute of the day with intense anxiety and how to find the right therapy for OCD. Melissa speaks so mindfully and with so much professionalism, whilst still...
24. Sexuality and relevance in classical music 13.07.2021 31:35
Trigger warning: discussions around specific homophobic comments Explicit language is used. Today we are speaking about recent backlash and online homophobia beneath three posts on Classic FM's social media to celebrate pride month and support the LGBTQ+ community. We were shocked and saddened to imagine musicians still enduring an environment where to be yourself is to be attacked, even in 2...
23. How are you really? Leaving music college, fearing suicidal thoughts, body image and more 29.06.2021 1:04:35
CW: Suicidal thoughts I sit down with Rebecca for our first chat as co-hosts! We discuss the fear around suicidal thoughts, leaving music college, managing transitions, body image, recovery and many more musician things. Rebecca also gives us some careers advice and insight into her plans for the future. I am beyond thrilled to be able to talk so openly in this new podcast partnership and can&apos...
22. Raye Harvey 20.06.2021 1:06:39
Today is all things Chineke! , Steiner education, mental health and branching out of classical music into other projects/genres! Hattie chats to violinist Raye Harvey about her life and education. Delving into the subtle ways in which subtle racial discrimination has been transformed by the work of the Chineke! Orchestra, Raye talks about becoming involved with Europe's majority-Black and ethnical...
Mental Health Walk 5- Making decisions in instability, degree endlessness 14.05.2021 13:50
I am so sad that it’s the final day of walks, but today I am escaping the rain inside! I answer some of your questions about making decisions when you’re feeling unstable, the stigma of moving back in with your parents and what to do when things feel endless. Thank you so much everyone who has tuned in this week and made it so special. Also to my Instagram Live guests, Rebecca and Abi for their vu...
Mental Health Walk 4- Vulnerability hangovers and the news 13.05.2021 10:48
Thank you for joining me for another walk!! Today I am talking about my vulnerability hangover and how the news affects our mental health (and why it’s ok to delete it) Things Musicians Don't Talk About website: https://www.thingsmusiciansdonttalkabout.com TMDTA Twitter Facebook Instagram If you would like to support our work, why not buy us a Kofi ? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy fo...
Mental Health Walk 3- Power abuse, my story 12.05.2021 19:05
Today I am talking about power abuse in light of being sent this article , written by David-Emil Wickstroem called 'Dealing with (institutionalised) forms of power abuse'. Power abuse can lead to mental health problems and is a big issue within our profession that needs addressing. Today I am sharing my experience with power abuse and hope it helps you to feel less alone if it's something that you...
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