Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal

Things Musicians Don't Talk About

Music EN ↓ 121 episodes

Hattie Butterworth and Rebecca Toal host a podcast of insight and change in the classical music and arts professions. Delving into the often stigmatised worlds of mental health, injury, discrimination and productivity, classical music issues are spoken and revived. Join Hattie, Rebecca and guests for important conversations, inspiring moments of wisdom and poignant vulnerability. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Author

Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal

Category

Music

Podcast website

shows.acast.com

Latest episode

May 18, 2026

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Episodes

62. If Lewis Capaldi was a classical musician 13.09.2023

For TMDTA's July Voices Radio appearance, Hattie and Becca discuss Lewis Capaldi's Glastonbury set and how this might translate in the classical music world. They also chat about their experiences of saying no as employees and as freelancers, Hattie's new adventures on bass guitar and Becca's new therapist. In the original show, the first half of Paul Denegri's episode played after their discussio...

61. Aaron Akugbo: BBC Proms, art and identity 31.08.2023

Our amazing friend, trumpeter Aaron Akugbo, is about to make his BBC Proms debut with the Chineke! Orchestra - but there's more to his story. Determined to be unapologetic about his identity, Aaron takes us through the weird world of brass 'lad' culture, through to the rise of Black Lives Matter and navigating the brass world as someone facing direct and indirect discrimination for being both blac...

60. Paul Denegri: multi-faceted by accident 11.07.2023

Becca catches up with her former teacher, Paul Denegri, from his stay in an old farmhouse. The humblest of the humble, Paul takes us through his journey to where he is now: revisiting his unexpected appointment as Head of Brass at Wells Cathedral School; his feelings of imposter syndrome and disillusionment with the freelance musician lifestyle; and staying true to his identity. Paul's trademark o...

59. Post-nap epiphanies 02.07.2023

Things Musicians Don't Talk About is now generously supported by the Royal Society of Musicians ! The Royal Society of Musicians is Britain’s oldest music charity and our aims remain as relevant today as they were in the earliest years – to provide vital financial assistance, advice and guidance to those professionally active in the world of music but who are unable to work due to accident, illnes...

58. Gosia Garstka: the stigma of suicide 08.06.2023

Tw: Mentions of suicide and it’s prevention In a society opening up conversations around mental health, suicide is still severely stigmatised and misunderstood. Today we meet pianist Gosia Garska who volunteers at the Listening Place - a charity set up to hold space for people struggling with suicidal thoughts and ideation. We discuss common myths around suicide, as well as how the Listening Place...

57. a May Q&A: behind the scenes of the podcast 18.05.2023

WE PASSED OUR VOICES RADIO TRIAL! Here's our most recent episode-show where we answer beautiful questions from our Insta followers (thanks you guys!). We chit-chat about our favourite and least favourite memories of TMDTA, Father Christmas and Wendy Christmas, a slightly different origin story of the podcast, the power of sharing our stories on social media, balancing pod commitments, Becca's wet...

56. Emily Ashton: on getting arrested & musical protesting 11.05.2023

This week we speak with the inspiring Emily Ashton, baroque cellist, viola da gambist and climate activist. Emily is a founding member of XR Baroque, a group of early music environmentalists who perform at Extinction Rebellion protests. We discuss how we process the overwhelm and anxiety that come with thinking about climate change, the murkiness of being a freelance musician and staying true to y...

55. Kathryn Williams: the flautist on life as a single parent & discrimination at work 25.04.2023

On this episode, Hattie speaks with flautist Kathryn Williams, co-author of the Independent Society of Musicians's (ISM) Dignity at Work 2 study, which looked into the experiences of discrimination among those working in the music sector. They also speak about Kathryn's experiences as a single parent 11 years ago, navigating studying at the Royal Northern College of Music whilst being the sole car...

54. Back by Popular Demand: arts cuts, audition burnout and performance anxiety 12.04.2023

In this episode of Things Musicians Don't Talk About, Hattie and Becca chat from the cosiness of Hattie's new-ish house and perfect podcasting room. We have a candid conversation about the recent arts cuts and the precarity of freelancing, plus Becca's recent feelings of audition burnout, and how we've both experienced and dealt with (or not dealt with...) performance anxiety in the past. Join us...

53. Joe Hastings: Music Minds Matter 05.04.2023

Where do musicians go for support in a crisis? For many years Help Musicians UK has been the main source of advocacy, funding and research for musicians facing crises of health and finances in the UK. In response to the increase in need for mental health support post pandemic, last autumn Help Musicians launched its subsidiary charity, Music Minds Matter to focus in on the mental health provision...

52. Ingela Onstad: on being more than 'just' a singer 02.02.2023

Today we are coming with a fascinating episode with Ingela Onstad, who is a psychotherapist and performance coach, as well as a professional soprano. Both Rebecca and I have been interested in getting to know a musician who is also trained as a psychotherapist and were curious to understand how she deals with boundaries in her job. We explore all of this, asking for Ingela’s insight into diversify...

51. Kate Kennedy: the biographer on how playing injury can lead to eating disorders 30.12.2022

***This episode deals covers topics including eating disorders, mental illness and the Holocaust. Kate talks about them incredibly respectfully and not in graphic details, but for listeners that would rather sit this one out, we understand*** It's our last episode of 2022 and this time, we're speaking to the exceptional Dr. Kate Kennedy, broadcaster, academic, cellist and writer, who specialises i...

50. Three in A Bar: podcast twinning 02.12.2022

This week we are coming from a North London living room with our wonderful friends from Three In A Bar Podcast. Verity Simmons (cello) and Seb Philpott (trumpet) join us for a 2-part series of collaborative podcasting and incredible company. We talk about how podcasting has altered their lives, who writes the emails, their careers and experiences as freelancers and the Three In A Bar podcast genes...

49. Katy Ehrlich: the uncut edit 04.11.2022

Introducing our producer, the wonderful flautist Katy Ehrlich. We are so excited to introduce Katy to you all and for you to hear the journey of her incredible life, and role in the pod, through county youth orchestra to Manchester University and then to the Royal Academy of Music for masters. Katy's journey uncovers a lot of the difficulties with music college environments and we discuss how hard...

48. Betty Makharinsky: on life as a singer and organising the Vache Baroque Festival 30.09.2022

‘It’s easy to slip into a mode of being  where you think your life is happening to you and  you’re stuck…you think you have to carry on xyz  trajectory because that’s how it’s been for so long…’  This week’s guest is the soprano Betty Makharinsky  who spoke to me (Hattie) during a day of rehearsals for the charity and organisation she co-founded, Vache Baroque Fe...

47. Hannah French: living & working with Ehlers Danlos Syndrome 07.09.2022

This episode we are sharing the space with BBC Radio 3 presenter and flautist, Hannah French . Recorded in a North London office space, we listened as Hannah explained to us her journey to a diagnosis of Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, a collagen deficiency which affects the soft tissue and has impacted her ability to walk, play the flute and live life as she once knew it. She took us through the reality...

46. Guy Withers: behind the scenes of Waterperry Opera Festival 21.06.2022

This week on TMDTA, Becca and Hattie chat with Guy Withers, Artistic Director, founder and CEO of Waterperry Opera Festival, about this year's upcoming festival which will celebrate it's fifth anniversary with an innovative eight-day open-air collection of eight productions in Waterperry, Oxfordshire. As usual, Becca and Hattie want to know more about what's going on behind the shiny facade of suc...

45. Cliodhna Ryan: panic attacks on stage 08.06.2022

Hattie and Rebecca are joined this week by violinist and podcaster Cliodhna Ryan. Delving into the years Cliodhna spent in the busyness of London, Cliodhna talks about her move back to Ireland and the creative projects that sprung from the move. Violinist in the Irish Chamber Orchestra, Cliodhna speaks about the realities of freelance life, as well as her experiences living with panic disorde...

43. Declan Costello: vocal health and injury 16.05.2022

Today we are joined by consultant laryngologist, voice disorders specialist and singer Declan Costello! We speak about common vocal injury among singers, the technicalities of his practice, what happens in vocal surgery and whether some injuries are irreversible. Check out Declan  here Declan's Biography Mr Costello studied music at St John's College, Cambridge, where he was a choral sch...

42. Rosie Bennet - Part 2 surviving anorexia 13.05.2022

Trigger warning: eating disorders and mental illness Part 2: We return to Rosie's story to hear about both the rock bottom and how she moved onwards and upwards past it. We would recommend listening to part 1 if you haven't already (released only a couple of days ago!) as this'll make a lot more sense with the rest of Rosie's story. We feel so incredibly honoured and grateful to Rosie for her time...

41. Rosie Bennet - Part 1 surviving anorexia 11.05.2022

Trigger warning: eating disorders and mental illness Part 1: We are extremely grateful to guitarist Rosie Bennet for letting us into the nooks and crannies of her life story. We talk about Rosie's musical training and her travels all over the world, and the subsequent dark periods in her life that culminated in a breakdown during her years at music college. The way in which Rosie speaks about...

40. 10k Q&A 20.04.2022

We reached 10,000 downloads which we think sounds a lot so we did a celebratory Q&A episode! Admittedly we didn't get as many questions as we'd expected (for some reason we thought number of downloads = number of questions with no effort required ) but we still had a nice chat and an orange san pell on Hattie's bed. Thanks as ever for your support and for your continued listenership, and here'...

39. Vic Isfryn: pregnancy discrimination 13.04.2022

Oh hey there again and thanks for joining us for episode 39! I could listen to Vic talk all day, honestly. Today, we present to you our chat about life as a freelance musician parent and Vic's experiences of pregnancy discrimination - a very real but seldom talked about topic. Vic herself is an amazing trumpet player who frequently appears on TV as well as performing to a live audience. She's perf...

38. Rakhi Singh: a new path 07.04.2022

Today we are thrilled to release our conversation with violinist and co-founder of the Manchester Collective, Rakhi Singh. Speaking with Rakhi was so joyful and restorative. We discuss her life within the Manchester Collective, how they continue to push boundaries and what ‘daring collaborations’ mean. We go on to talk about chamber music and the ways in which we can feel restricted in the definit...

37. Cara Houghton, CUKSN and Burnout 21.03.2022

Hattie and Rebecca are joined by the chair of the Conservatoires UK Student Network, Cara Houghton to speak about their Burnout Campaign in collaboration with Healthy Conservatoires, starting this week from 21-26 March. Rebecca and Hattie go on to discuss their own experiences of burnout, the difference between mental illness and burnout and Hattie’s experience living in a convent to get away from...

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