Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal

Things Musicians Don't Talk About

Music EN ↓ 121 episodes

Hattie Butterworth and Rebecca Toal host a podcast of insight and change in the classical music and arts professions. Delving into the often stigmatised worlds of mental health, injury, discrimination and productivity, classical music issues are spoken and revived. Join Hattie, Rebecca and guests for important conversations, inspiring moments of wisdom and poignant vulnerability. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Author

Hattie Butterworth & Rebecca Toal

Category

Music

Podcast website

shows.acast.com

Latest episode

May 18, 2026

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Episodes

111. Jessica Duchen: activism, power and politics 18.05.2026

We couldn't be more pleased to be releasing this interview with legendary journalist Jessica Duchen. Hosted in her beautiful home, we speak about her path into writing, how personal challenges have affected her outlook on life and journalism, and her decision to no longer be "muzzled". Her commitment to uncovering classical music's uncomfortable truths has resulted in some iconic articles, includi...

110. The future of TMDTA 14.04.2026

This was never going to be a fun episode to make. After some months of sitting on this decision, we are sharing with you the news that TMDTA will come to an end in June after six years of beautiful conversations. In this episode, Becca and I discuss the reasons why and look back over the six years. Thank you thank you for all your incredible love and support – we are so grateful for this community...

109. Surviving ballet: Louise Bennett on change in the industry 13.03.2026

What REALLY goes on in the world of ballet and specialist ballet schools? And how different is it to the world of classical music and what can we learn from ballet dancers as musicians? Louise Bennett is a former ballet dancer and Artistic Director of the London Vocational Ballet School. She Hattie and Becca about the current climate within ballet, experience at the Royal Ballet School, as well as...

108. The Break Down: predicting, reflecting, replying. 18.02.2026

Hattie has "trouble in everything", Becca has been living the Lady of Leisure lifestyle. They look back at 2016, forwards to 2026, and reply to an email from a reader/listener who reached out about feeling gaslit by their music college professor. ------------------------------------------------------------- Things Musicians Don't Talk About is supported by the  Royal Society of Musicians ! Fo...

107. Thangam Debbonaire & Eleanor Turner: The Political Musician | Live at RSM 03.02.2026

What role do musicians play in the political landscape? And how safe do they feel about speaking out without damaging their career prospects? In this episode, live from the Royal Society of Musicians, Hattie and Rebecca are joined by cellist and former Labour MP Thangam Debbonaire and harpist and activist Eleanor Turner. They explore the barriers musicians face to championing their political cause...

106. Lizzie Ball: Classical Music for Contemporary Society 09.01.2026

We bring you a special filmed episode from Ronnie Scott's legendary London jazz club where we speak with the fabulous Lizzie Ball. Alongside pianist James Pearson, Lizzie will be curating the much-anticipated classical series Upstairs at Ronnie’s. We chat about the series, and then onto Lizzie's backstory of becoming an improvising violinist, coaching musicians with performance anxiety, and what c...

105. Dr Anna Bull: class and classical music 03.12.2025

Dr. Anna Bull is a Senior Lecturer in Education and Social Justice, Co-director of The 1752 Group and a former professional pianist and cellist. We return to Zoom to speak with her about class and socioeconomic issues in the classical music industry, and pick her brains about what, if anything, can be done. She also tells us about her work on sexual harassment in music conservatoires, and why the...

104. The Break Down: Depression, donors and misogyny 08.11.2025

Trigger Warning: suicidal ideation from 13:50 to 18:00 Is it ethical that musicians feels 'owned' or controlled by their donors? Today in The Break Down, we are discussing philanthropy in classical music and opera, Hattie's recent experience of depression and the strife of misogyny, sadly still in some of Rebecca's orchestral experiences Watch this episode on Youtube here. ------------------------...

103. The Break Down: Saudi Arabia, Hopelessness & Activism 17.10.2025

Welcome to our rebranded 'chatty episodes' - now, with middling irony and an exaggerated sense of self-awareness, called The Break Down. Hattie brings our Classical Strife newsletter segment to the podcast, we chat about The Met x Saudi Arabia's hot new #collab, we dis/agree on activism, and come to the usual conclusion that mental health is difficult. Like, subscribe, review (if it's nice), and s...

102. Ophelia Gordon: living though anorexia and divorce 29.09.2025

Words hold huge power, and for a long time the word 'anorexia' felt dirty to pianist Ophelia Gordon. First experiencing its wrath while studying at the BRIT School and watching her parents' divorce unravel her life, anorexia would return two years ago when Ophelia separated from her husband. She joins Hattie and Rebecca to uncover the story of her eating disorder, the trauma of divorce and the way...

101. Jessica Curry: when things fall apart 14.08.2025

'If it could have gone wrong it has gone wrong'. The last five years for Jessica Curry, a composer of contemporary classical game music, has been marked by severe illness and personal loss. She joins Hattie and Becca on Things Musicians Don't Talk About to share her journey being diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis and subsequently shielding during the pandemic. She explains the emotional toll o...

100. We listened to our old episodes… and immediately regretted it 30.07.2025

We have reached episode 100 and so decided, as a celebration, we'd take a wee look back... we might now regret it! Listen as we react to the first episode we made together, now over four years ago! Becca also tests Hattie on five years of hot takes – who said what and when? Things Musicians Don't Talk About is supported by the  Royal Society of Musicians ! Follow RSM on  Instagram ,&nbsp...

99. Lauren McQuistin: eating disorders in classical music (live) 16.07.2025

*Trigger warning: discussion of eating disorders, alcoholism, addiction* From our live event at the Royal Society of Musicians on 22nd May 2025 Lauren McQuistin has been running the Instagram account @brutalrecovery for years now. Her advocacy for honest recovery discourse has resonated with many alcoholics, particularly with her with her trademark eloquence and dry humour. Lauren now shares her e...

98. Performative workaholism, surviving criticism and intuitive eating 01.07.2025

Hattie and Becca discuss the need for many creatives to prove themselves to others online, often sharing data about their work. Do we need a structure and numeric guide for practice or can it be intuitive? And how does this link to intuitive eating? They also go on to discuss the complexities of dealing with criticism, where that sensitivity comes from and how Hattie copes with empathy for perform...

97. Jamie Barton: embodying pride 18.06.2025

Mezzo-soprano Jamie Barton has been fighting the corner of the marginalised in classical music now for over 10 years. From a marriage breakdown to a queer awakening and struggles with learning repertoire, Jamie joins Hattie and Becca to discuss her experiences as a queer woman in America and her journey to discovering her ADHD. She also shares powerful insights into body positivity, her approach t...

96. Back again, but different 04.06.2025

Entering our YouTube era...! And we're talking about returning to things we didn't expect to: Hattie to America and Becca to the harp. We also have a good ol' think about child prodigies, faith and praying, and Becca obsesses further about JULY. We've got some absolutely stellar interviews lined up for release, so stay tuned. Thank you to forScore for advertising with us and to the Royal Society o...

95. Meditation for musicians: calming the inner critic 25.05.2025

After a performance we term as 'bad', it can be difficult to return to a sense of confidence in our playing. In this fourth mediation, Ruth Philips leads a meditation to disarm the inner critic and restore a sense of peace and acceptance in our performing. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

94. Meditation for musicians: connecting with your audience 18.05.2025

Our aim as musicians is to communicate generously and freely to our audience but we rarely turn towards ourselves with the same degree of care. In this meditation, Ruth Philips leads a loving kindness practice, exploring how it might be to extend that kindness outwards towards our audience Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

93. Meditation for musicians: reconnecting with your instrument 10.05.2025

This meditation aims to bring you closer to your instrument and aid in healing any sense of disconnect you may be feeling Discover Ruth Philips *Ruth Philips and Lucy Russell are running a course 'Mindfulness for Musicians' at Benslow Music from 13-15 June. More information here * ------------------------------------------------------------- Things Musicians Don't Talk About is supported by the&nb...

92. Meditation for musicians: pre-performance anxiety 02.05.2025

A meditation for musicians lead by cellist and mindfulness meditation teacher Ruth Philips for use to calm the mind around stage fright and performance anxiety. Discover Ruth Philips ------------------------------------------------------------- Things Musicians Don't Talk About is supported by the  Royal Society of Musicians ! Follow RSM on  Instagram ,  X  and  Facebook ....

91. I wasn’t as good at the cello as I thought I was 23.04.2025

'On returning from America, I listened back to lots of my old recordings and discovered a paradox: I had no confidence but also thought I deserved more – thought I was better than I really was'. Hattie sits down to share reflections from her trip to America from health anxiety and Curtis, to self-love and deleting dating apps Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

90. Lucy Humphris: embracing otherness 15.04.2025

This week we interview trumpet player Lucy Humphris about her journey through music college and the contemporary music scene. We speak about the institutional barriers Lucy and others face as a female brass player with a non-traditional career trajectory, sharing her experiences of feeling "othered" and misunderstood. From battling expectations of orchestral conformity to navigating the complex la...

89. Rigid control, guilt and returning to exercise 26.03.2025

Eating disorders and intense practice obsession have a lot in common. How do we move from an 'all or nothing' mindset to something structured and regular? Becca shares the start to her return to exercise following healing from an eating disorder and Hattie shares the parallels to the toxic relationship she has to the cello and hours of practice Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more infor...

88. Beyond the 'woman' conversation: Gillian Moore and CN Lester Live at RSM 08.03.2025

There are statements made time and time again when you approach the topic of women in music: 'but historically music by men is just better', 'I'm sick of this wokeism in classical music' and 'people won't buy tickets to concerts of just women's music'. CN Lester and Gillian Moore join us live at the Royal Society of Musicians to unpack these statements and uncover the truth to performance, program...

87. Emily White on grief, teaching and the joy of letting go 21.02.2025

10 years ago trombonist Emily White lost her husband after a prolonged period of illness. She was thrown into the worlds of death admin and loneliness, but out of it discovered a perspective on what was important as a musician. She shares with Hattie and Becca an insight into her grief journey, as well as her infectious joy of teaching and hatred of the word 'should'. Emily also takes them through...

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