Messy Social Work

In this episode of the Messy Social Work Podcast , Rich and Tim speak with Dr Paul Shuttleworth about his new book Listening to Children about Kinship Care: Child Welfare and Permanence . Drawing on powerful research and direct testimony from children and young people, Paul shares what they say really matters when professionals make decisions about kinship care, permanence, and support. We explore...

 In this episode, we explore why lived experience has become such a dominant force in social work, and ask: what are we missing when we treat it as unquestionable truth? Dr Stabler helps us think critically about how stories are used, who gets to tell them, and what happens when experience becomes currency. This is a conversation about ethics, representation, and the uncomfortable edges of practic...

In this episode, Rich and Tim: How to Succeed at Failing , we reflect on the times we’ve got it wrong — professionally and personally — and explore why failure isn’t just inevitable, but essential. From missteps to lessons learned, we talk about how embracing failure can lead to growth, insight, and even unexpected success. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW...

In this thoughtful and research-informed conversation, Rich and Tim speak with Professor Rick Barth about his influential article, “Ten Common Child Welfare Misconceptions.” The episode explores how widely held beliefs about child protection and foster care often diverge from evidence and practice realities. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection...

In this episode, Rich and Tim sit down with Professor Harry Ferguson—one of the most influential thinkers in contemporary social work. Together, they explore the evolution of the profession, the emotional and embodied nature of frontline practice, and what we’ve learned from decades of child death enquiries. Harry reflects on the importance of relationships, the complexity of risk, and why social...

Rich and Tim speak to Lee Crouch, a parent activist, about losing his children, the long road to recovery, and eventual reunification. Together, they explore how parents, social workers, and foster carers can collaborate more compassionately. Rich and Tim also reflect on their own experiences of shame — how it’s shaped their work and personal lives — and what it means for practice and healing. Con...

Social Work England fee rise and increase in fitness to practise case numbers https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/24/social-work-england-presses-ahead-with-33-fee-rise-despite-huge-practitioner-opposition/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/25/social-work-england-fee-hike-unjustifiable-and-based-on-tokenistic-consultation-warn-unison-and-basw/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/29/ps...

 In this conversation, Rich and Tim explore how writing isn’t just for blogs or books—it’s a powerful tool for social workers to think more clearly, practice more effectively, and create new opportunities.  Drawing on their own experiences, they discuss how the simple act of putting words on a page sharpens reflection, deepens analysis, and helps communicate ideas with confidence.  Whether you’re...

In this episode of Messy Social Work , Rich and Tim debate (and disagree about): are social workers failing families by ignoring the system? It’s just the two of us this time, diving into one of the biggest tensions in the profession. Should we focus our energy on helping individual families build safety and stability? Or is that just papering over the cracks of a system that keeps producing harm?...

Dr Lorna Stabler's research can be found here. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn: https://www.li...

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

Connect with Cordie here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cordie-gwilym/ Mithran's CC articles:  A guide to the reforms: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/10/the-dfes-child-protection-and-family-support-reforms-explained/ An interview with Eileen Munro, in which she voiced significant criticisms of the changes: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/03/munro-childrens-social-care-reforms-v...

In this conversation, Rasheed Nicholas John Pendry shares his journey into social work, highlighting the transformative impact of systemic ideas and personal experiences on his professional practice.  He discusses the importance of relationships in social work, the need for cultural change within organisations, and innovative practices in family therapy. Rashid also reflects on the complexities of...

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

In this episode of "Messy Social Work," hosts Rich Devine and Tim Fisher engage in a profound conversation with Clarissa Stevens, a seasoned youth worker and relational activist. Clarissa shares her journey from a challenging upbringing to becoming a pivotal figure in youth advocacy. She delves into the emotional landscape of teenagers, offering insights into how professionals can connec...

In this conversation, Kevin Campbell discusses the profound impact of family separation policies, particularly in the context of child welfare and legal action against the Trump administration. He emphasizes the importance of family connections, innovative approaches in child protection, and the role of social workers in supporting youth. The discussion also covers the significance of understandin...

Mithran's articles:  https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/12/4bn-a-year-more-available-for-adult-social-care-by-2028-29-in-spending-review/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/12/spending-review-childrens-services-cash-boost-means-labour-delivering-on-care-review-macalister/   https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/06/17/casey-dfe-must-urgently-investigate-fall-in-number-of-child-sexual-...

We’re joined by the brilliant Professor Jill Derrick from the University of California, Berkeley, for a compelling and thought-provoking conversation on the complexities of child protection practice. From the competing tensions social workers navigate to the moral distress they often face, Jill offers deep insight into the impossible decisions that define the field. We examine the moral implicatio...

In this episode with speak with Duane Phillips, Senior Social Worker at Coventry City Council. We talk about:   Duane's experience growing up mixed heritage  working with children, families and community Duane's experience working as a family support worker and running groups for men Being a male social worker And much more... We hope you enjoy this episode as much as we did. Connect wit...

This week, we have our first-ever return guest, Terri Anne, who shares the important work of the Care Leavers Association and delves into her exploration of the emotional rollercoaster of retrieving and reading her care files.  Tim interviews care leaver Liana Karim and Jo about their National Voice Project, and some stark findings from a massive study involving care-experienced adults. Liana read...

In this episode, Rich and Tim and live and in person in Rich's living - they unpack 10 lessons from Rich's experience in child protection, with Tim surprising Rich with a Paxman style interview, quizzing and questioning his central ideas. Do they withstand the scrutiny, tune in to find out. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection session...

In this episode, we speak to Professor Clive Diaz, a music producer who has also worked as a social worker, principal social worker, researcher, professor, and psychoanalytical psychotherapist.  We discuss the relevance of psychoanalytical ideas in modern social work, such as transference, countertransference, the unconscious, and much more. Can these ideas really help us as social workers, or sho...

This week, we speak with George Fielding, BEM, a disability rights activist and social care leader. He was the first child in his area to go to a mainstream school in a wheelchair. Since then, he’s worked with charities like Whizz-Kidz, mentored over 100 disabled people, and received an MBE. George also set up two care organisations that focus on dignity, choice, and helping people live the lives...

In this episode of Messy Social Work, Tim Fisher and Rich Devine explore the complexities of child protection social work.  They discuss the myths surrounding the profession, the importance of relationships, and the challenges social workers face in balancing their roles. Rich shares insights from his book, addressing misconceptions about the ability of social workers to keep children safe and hap...

In this episode of the newly named podcast, Rich and Tim discuss Rich's blog; 15 Years in Social Work – And 4 Reasons I am Still Not a Manager. Rich qualified as a social worker 15 years ago and has never held a management role. This has been a deliberate choice. He has remained working directly with children and families. There are four key reasons why Rich and Tim unpack. 1. Relationships 2...