Messy Social Work

In this episode of the Messy Social Work Podcast , Rich and Tim discuss Richard's recent blog, 14 Lessons from 11 Years at Bath and North East Somerset Council , written as he prepares to leave frontline children's social work after more than a decade in B&NES and take up a leadership role in Solihull. Together, they explore fourteen reflections shaped by years of child protection pr...

In this episode, we’re joined by former undercover drugs officer Neil Woods to explore the ideas at the heart of his book Good Cop, Bad War . Drawing on over a decade working covertly inside drug markets, Neil gives a sobering account of how the “war on drugs” actually plays out on the ground - and why, in his view, it so often makes things worse rather than better. Neil talks about what he witnes...

In this episode, we sit down with foster carer Gareth K Thomas to explore his experiences of caring for children who have lived through trauma, and what it really means to offer trauma-informed care in practice. Gareth shares honest reflections on the realities of foster care - the rewards, the challenges, and the emotional impact of supporting children who have experienced adversity. We talk abou...

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

In this episode, we speak with Maddy McCormack, a social worker early in her career, about the realities of stepping into practice with children and families. Maddy reflects on her route into the role, what day-to-day social work actually looks like, and what she’s had to learn beyond training to be effective in her first year. We explore how she builds relationships with young people and their fa...

 In this episode, we sit down with Sharon Shoesmith to revisit one of the most defining and contentious moments in modern child protection: the case of Baby P, and the national reaction that followed. Sharon reflects candidly on what it meant to become the focus of public anger—labelled, scrutinised, and ultimately removed from her role—despite leading a service that had been judged as “good” by O...

In this episode of the Messy Social Work podcast , we begin with a conversation with Natasha Dube, before Rich and Tim discuss Liz Bosanquet’s new book, Systemic Social Work Practice. The discussion explores how systemic ideas can move beyond theory and into everyday practice, helping practitioners think relationally about families, organisations and the wider systems shaping people’s lives. A con...

In this second bonus episode, Rich, Tim and Charlotte build directly on Part 1, turning their attention to the four remaining ideas from Rich’s blog on resilience in social work and exploring how these play out in practice. The conversation moves beyond individual productivity and into the ethical and emotional costs of working under sustained pressure. Drawing on Vikki Reynolds’ work, the episode...

This episode explores time management as both a practical challenge and a lived experience in social work. Rich shares techniques such as Stephen Covey’s urgent and important quadrants, Cal Newport’s time blocking and the difference between deep and shallow work, while also being honest about how difficult these are to sustain in real practice. The conversation moves into presence, stress and prag...

This bonus episode picks up where the previous conversation left off. Rich and Tim return to six years of journals to explore the next three themes that emerged — the ones that didn’t fit neatly, resolve cleanly, or offer easy lessons. They begin with work and purpose , tracing how Rich’s journals reveal a constant back‑and‑forth: ambition and exhaustion, pride and resentment, meaning and burnout....

In this episode, Rich and Tim sit down with six years of personal journals and ask a simple but uncomfortable question: what actually changed? They focus on the first three themes that stood out when Rich reread everything back. First, Rich reflects on the long arc of his mental health — how early journal entries framed exhaustion, irritability and low mood as problems of discipline, productivity,...

In this episode of Messy Social Work , Rich and Tim are joined by therapist and writer Jamie Crabb to explore his powerful article Care, and Being Seen in the Presence of the Enigmatic . Jamie reflects on what care really asks of us when things don’t make sense—when distress can’t be easily named, understood, or fixed. Drawing on his own experience of the care system, his therapeutic work, and psy...

Janet Kay is a prominent kinship carer, trustee for the charity Kinship , and OBE recipient who advocates for families in England raising relatives' children. Based in Sheffield, she has cared for her grandson since he was 18 months old, advocating for better financial and practical support, and overcoming the "dump and run" lack of resources for caregivers.  Key Aspects of Janet Ka...

Professor Jonathan Scourfield is a leading UK academic in social work, currently based at Cardiff University. His work spans child welfare, social care inequalities, suicide and self‑harm research, and working with men across the life course  This one https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6079816 tests if participation quality (i.e., how well families said their voice was heard) was...

A few years ago, Rich carried out an assessment that concluded Juliette couldn’t safely care for her children. It was a difficult moment, shaped by years of substance misuse, trauma, and repeated involvement from services. That assessment recommended residential rehabilitation. Juliette went on to take that step. In this conversation, Rich and Tim speak with Juliette about what was happening in he...

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Connect with Ethan here:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethan-st-pierre-bb58403ab/ Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Connect with Ethan here:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethan-st-pierre-bb58403ab/ Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

In this conversation, Rich and Tim and Mark Hopfenbeck explore the concept of Open Dialogue, its origins, and its application in mental health and social work. They discuss the importance of community involvement, the need for continuity in care, and the training required to develop relational skills. Mark emphasizes the significance of peer support and the challenges faced in implementing Open Di...

In this episode, we speak with Dr Mina Fazel , a British psychiatrist who is Professor and Chair of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Oxford. Her research considers the mental health of children and young people, and how to design effective mental health interventions. We talk to her about a recent paper: Adolescent consent and Generation Alpha: b...

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

This week, we speak to Seana, a social worker in a Child in Care Team.  We explore what her role involves, how she builds relationships with young people, carers, and families, and the challenges she faces—as well as what helps her keep going.  We’re really grateful to Seana for taking the time to talk with us, especially given how busy the role is. We hope you enjoy her passion, child‑centred pra...

In this two-part episode of Messy Social Work , hosts Richard Devine and Tim Fisher speak with Dr Anna Harvey about the realities of child protection practice, reflective supervision, and the emotional weight of decision-making. Using a selection of Anna’s vivid LinkedIn posts and readings as a jumping-off point, the conversation moves from psychoanalytic ideas like organisational mindlessness, fe...

In this two-part episode of Messy Social Work , hosts Richard Devine and Tim Fisher speak with Dr Anna Harvey about the realities of child protection practice, reflective supervision, and the emotional weight of decision-making. Using a selection of Anna’s vivid LinkedIn posts and readings as a jumping-off point, the conversation moves from psychoanalytic ideas like organisational mindlessness, fe...