Allen Berger & Thom Rutledge

Emotional Sobriety: The Next Step in Recovery

Health EN ↓ 200 episodes

Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholic's Anonymous, wrote in 1952, "If we examine every disturbance we have, great or small, we will find at the root some unhealthy dependence and its consequent demand." Wilson suggested that if we could identify and continually surrender these unrealistic and unrecognizable demands, that we may then be able to accomplish what he imagined to be recovery's next frontier - something he called emotional sobriety. Flash forward 70 years, and join psychotherapists and best-selling authors Thom Rutledge and Dr. Allen Berger, who have taken up the mantle of exploring B...

Author

Allen Berger & Thom Rutledge

Category

Health

Podcast website

abphd.com

Latest episode

Jul 6, 2026

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Episodes

He Doth Protest Too Much (Missive from ICSAA)! 22.09.2024

Allen Berger and Joe Chisholm check in from this year’s ICSAA conference in Orlando, Florida, to relay an anecdote from one of the speakers: “we aren’t all egomaniacs!” When we aren’t seen by our fellows, it creates an injury to our self-esteem. As we develop more differentiation (emotional sobriety), it becomes easier to not allow other people’s comments to define us. Until such time, the group c...

So Worth Living 16.09.2024

Allen, Thom, and Patrick read from the AA Grapevine again and reflect on the story of someone in recovery from addiction who suffered traumatic brain injury. Emotional Sobriety promises more than just a sober stasis. True freedom is possible as we transition away from "okay if" towards "okay even if" framework for living our lives.  To read today’s AA Grapevine article, “So Worth Living,” access t...

Grip Lightly 09.09.2024

No matter our level of certainty about anything, emotional sobriety advises holding the truth in our hands but gripping it lightly. We find “rolling with the punches” to be much stronger survival mechanism than the inflexibility and ossification of a fixed position. This week, Allen and Thom talk more about perfectionism and freedom, which we define as having the possibility of a new experience at...

Challenging Core Beliefs 02.09.2024

Our sagely Joe Chisholm returns for heartfelt conversation about the negative self-concepts that can undermine our recoveries. Experiences which are imprinted onto us at a young age become core beliefs about ourselves which mature into unhelpful distortions. Feelings of unworthiness and shame are just a couple Thom and Patrick explore this week. The work of becoming emotionally sober involves chal...

When We Need Outside Help 25.08.2024

Howard Malitz returns to the pod to read and discuss another AA Grapevine article, which deals with the role of therapy, medication, and other mental health “outside help” that can unfortunately run into judgment and skepticism in certain rooms of recovery. A non-punitive attitude of openness, compassion, and encouragement towards “whatever works” keeps more people in the boat as we build the comm...

Accepting the Road Ahead with Dr. Shawn Horn 12.08.2024

Author, psychologist and TEDx speaker Dr. Shawn Horn rejoins us to discuss her upcoming project about adults with ADHD, with particular focus on our nervous system’s role in our emotional experience. From there we read another article from the AA Grapevine, and speak further to how emotional sobriety can help us stay connected to each other and ourselves as we move through grief.   Read a pdf of t...

Stay Connected & Add More Self 04.08.2024

Joe C. rejoins Allen and Thom this week, to discuss looking beyond what a person is saying to focus on what they’re experiencing. Modeling emotional sobriety tools in ever-growing circles (beyond our meetings and loved ones) into a world in need of good examples. Practicing emotional sobriety in environments where there's none, or very little.   “Listen now. When people talk listen completely. Don...

Balancing on the Relational Beam 28.07.2024

Allen, Thom, and Patrick discuss the challenge and opportunity in conducting their relationships in a manner appropriate to those relationships. We circle back to politics, where despite our differences we try to not lose our human connection and empathy for our fellows.   Read Thom’s “Therapy 4 Politics”: https://www.thomrutledge.com/therapy4politics   Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebe...

Beating the Questionnaire 14.07.2024

Allen, Thom, and Patrick bring their AA Grapevine series to a close and talk "doomscrolling," rehab, and first steps.   This week’s “Emotional Sobriety” Grapevine Article, “The Zinger,” can be accessed here via .pdf: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b-uDb9bGY2omGXgfw4ztLq3-b2QFDKi2/view?usp=sharing   Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com/...

Hurtling Towards Serenity 07.07.2024

Joe C. and Thom join Patrick before Allen pops in to discuss our second to last AA Grapevine reading series on Emotional Sobriety.   This week’s Emotional Sobriety Grapevine Article, “Batter Up,” can be accessed here via .pdf: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qX48R8UzkFYuL9gHS4OgQNtQ4KL3KQeD/view?usp=sharing   Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublis...

Life Goes On 23.06.2024

Carol Carter drops by to help us read the latest in Emotional Sobriety from the AA Grapevine - the first article in our series that has some objectionable beats, which Allen and Thom get into. Some emphasis this week on the loved ones we lose during our recovery, and how we can manage the grief that arises.   This week’s “Emotional Sobriety” Grapevine Article, “Life Goes On” can be accessed here v...

Get Quiet, and Listen 16.06.2024

Earnie Larsen once said, “Your program cannot take you further than your definition of recovery.” Take a moment and answer the following question: What is your definition of recovery?   Happy Father's Day from Allen, Thom, and Patrick to all who celebrate.   This week’s “Emotional Sobriety” Grapevine Article, “Tink, Tink, Tink,” can be accessed herehttps://www.aagrapevine.org/magazine/2024/jan/tin...

Connection/Hope/Identity/Meaning/Empowement 03.06.2024

Joe C. brings the CHIME recovery model from a recent workshop into our eternally unfolding discussion of what it means to be emotionally sober. Even when we’re falling off the beam, there’s lessons in the struggle to stay balanced.    Check out Howard Malitz’ Seasons of Sobriety podcast: https://pod.link/1460539626   Upcoming events with Allen Berger: https://abphd.com/events/   Follow us on socia...

Never Judge Your Earlier Self by What You Know Today 27.05.2024

Thom and Patrick discuss the latest emotional sobriety-centric AA Grapevine article and talk work, God, and acceptance. Next week, Joe C. returns to the pod.   This week’s “Emotional Sobriety” Grapevine Article, “Fishing Heaven” can be accessed here via .pdf: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1otV6dF4dRNV-36_fCrzh95ZSHMOrLcLf/view?usp=sharing     Check out Howard Malitz’ Seasons of Sobriety podcast:...

Spiritual GPS 20.05.2024

Allen, Thom, and Patrick delve into the latest Emotional Sobriety-centric AA Grapevine article. We discuss rock bottoms, taking action, and the role of prayer in disentangling ourselves from misery to embrace a burgeoning consciousness of emotional freedom.   This week’s “Emotional Sobriety” Grapevine Article, “Enter my Lonely Heart” can be accessed on the website here: https://www.aagrapevine.org...

Any Way You Slice It (Cheerio to London!) 12.05.2024

Allen and Patrick record face-to-face during some downtime from the three-day Recovery Reimagined event in London to discuss bringing Emotional Sobriety to different parts of the world, before delving into the next Grapevine article on Emotional Sobriety. Next, Patrick touches base with event organizer Patrick McAteer to review speakers, concepts and gratitudes from the event (spoiler: it was a wh...

Make Plans, Don’t Plan the Results! 29.04.2024

Allen, Thom, and Patrick revisit the principle of staying sober for one more day, even when it would make more sense to get loaded. We also spend some time on what it means to “future trip," and how we can stay present while also heading off trouble down the road.   This week’s “Emotional Sobriety” Grapevine Article, “Once a Zombie”: https://www.aagrapevine.org/magazine/2024/jan/once-zombie   Chec...

So Worth It 21.04.2024

Allen, Thom, and Patrick read another emotional sobriety anecdote from the AA Grapevine and discuss early sobriety, sponsors, and attempting to live better lives.   This week’s “Emotional Sobriety” Grapevine Article, “So Worth It”: https://www.aagrapevine.org/magazine/2024/jan/so-worth-it   Check out Howard Malitz’ Seasons of Sobriety podcast: https://pod.link/1460539626   Upcoming events with All...

Courage to Change 14.04.2024

Thom and Patrick discuss a friend whose wife and baby are in the hospital this weekend in dire straits, as well as Patrick’s recent elective surgery and Tom’s ephemeral challenge of procrastination. In each case we practice serenity - not only accepting that which we don’t control, but stepping up to the plate and taking any and all positive actions available to us.   Check out Howard Malitz’ Seas...

Dream Come True 08.04.2024

Allen mines some lessons from a death in the family and Thom reflects on an inspiring recent phase of good health as we land on our latest Grapevine article, which has to do with finding recovery and fellowship in meetings around the world. Remaining flexible, finding Solution within shifting conditions is at the heart of emotional sobriety.    This week’s “Emotional Sobriety” Grapevine Article, “...

Party Guy 25.03.2024

The Grapevine story Carol, Allen, Thom, and Patrick get into this week has to do with a longtime AA member fielding some annoying criticism from a Fellow and being brought into deeper contact with recovery and all the reasons to “keep coming back.”   This week’s “Emotional Sobriety” Grapevine Article, “Party Guy”: https://www.aagrapevine.org/magazine/2024/jan/party-guy   Check out Howard Malitz’ S...

Getting the Help 18.03.2024

Carol Carter joins the pod again (and will be returning next week!) to discuss depth and stages of recovery, culling from a recent Emotional Sobriety-focused Grapevine article.   This week’s “Emotional Sobriety” Grapevine Article, “Getting the Help”: https://www.aagrapevine.org/magazine/2024/jan/getting-help   Check out Howard Malitz’ Seasons of Sobriety podcast: https://pod.link/1460539626   Upco...

Unity = Love 11.03.2024

This week we discuss the “peaceful leveling” that occurs in fellowship, how with greater emotional sobriety our alienating differences can melt away. When we align with reality, staying "right-sized," we don’t over inflate our own importance, nor do we minimize the importance of others.    This week’s “Emotional Sobriety” Grapevine Article, “Unity = Love”: https://www.aagrapevine.org/magazine/2024...

"The Experiment" with Sara Stromberg 04.03.2024

Allen, Thom, and Patrick welcome Sara Stromberg, a many years recovering student of Gestalt therapy who discusses her sobriety and sponsorship of women over the years in light of today’s reading - a portrait of “controlled drinking.”   This week’s “Emotional Sobriety” Grapevine Article, “The Experiment”: https://www.aagrapevine.org/magazine/2024/jan/experiment   Check out Howard Malitz’ Seasons of...

Passing It On 26.02.2024

Allen, Thom, and Patrick reflect on small simple actions, our claiming of experiences rather than allowing them to claim us, which allow us to better cope with reality.   This week’s “Emotional Sobriety” Grapevine Article: https://www.aagrapevine.org/magazine/2024/jan/passing-it   Check out Howard Malitz’ Seasons of Sobriety podcast: https://pod.link/1460539626   Upcoming events with Allen Berger:...

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