Talking Talmud

Comparisons between the land of Israel and Babylonia - regarding lineage and the purity thereof, during the return to Zion, Shivat Zion. With the given that we don't investigate a family's purity. Plus, some cases of people not marrying because of the concern of the purity of the lineage of their potential mates.

The time when a visit to a butcher shop led to excommunication, a change of status (from free man to slave), and a matching of halakhic wits between Rav Nachman, R. Yehudah bar Yehezkel, and a little Yalta for good measure.

More complications of personal status, including, or especially with regard to mamzerut and slaves - plus, how their union works to cancel mamzerut. Plus, a non-complimentary description of slaves. Also, beginning the 4th chapter: with a mishnah listing the complicated lineages of those who moved from Babylonia to Israel.

Additional discussion of yesterday's discussion - on R. Akiva's opinion that all prohibited relationships result in mamzer progeny. But there are some difficulties with that approach. Plus, more on the progeny from other liaisons, including intermarriage in the contemporary sense of it, and which parent determines the child's status.

A new mishnah - complications in halakhic status of children as compared to the father vs. mother. Even when the marriage itself is prohibited, the children follow the problematic status parent. Also, what happens if the couple is not Jewish, from different tribes or countries (eg, or religions). When does the status follow the male, and when the female?

While the daf discusses whether one or two witnesses are needed to prove an ervah the daf discusses the story ad Yannai and Shimon ben Shetach. Plus a disagreement between Rabbi Tarfon and Rabbi Akiva which demonstrates the genius of Rabbi Akiva’s exegesis

A new mishnah - with a series of cases: when there's a dispute between a man and a woman as to whether he betrothed her (and the implications of betrothal, which prohibits them to some of each other's relatives, for example). Which of them is to be believed? Or rather, how do we handle not knowing whom to believe? Also, an Amoraic dispute on at least one of the cases in the mishnah: with Rav sayin...

More mishnayot - more cases of a father betrothing his daughter (who is not the age of majority). What if the father says he has done so - when is he believed or not? Also, one who says at the time of his death that he has children (keeping a wife who has no children with him from needing to do yibum) - he's believed. If he claims to have brothers (giving her the need for yibum), he's not believed...

3 mishnayot! Each with unusual, surprising conditions for betrothal, and when they donor don't work.

If a man betrothes a woman and explains that he was mistaken in his thinking about different aspects of her identity, they remain betrothed. She wasn't acting under false pretenses. But not so if they weren't eligible to be betrothed at the time that the man makes conditions on the betrothal, the conditions coming true are not enough - because they weren't eligible to begin with. Plus, a condition...

Irregularities in a field that is to be used for kiddushin - how do they change things? Plus new mishnah on the double conditions of Gad and Reuven. Plus, the dispute between R. Meir and R. Hanina ben Gamliel.

The parallels between the regular case of betrothal and other topics. Plus, specific conditions - based on specifics of money - what he has, what she can trust that he has. The specific phrasing of the conditions can make a difference. Depending, course, on the behavior of the shaliach, and retroactive kiddushin... Plus, if the condition is the 30 days for when betrothal kicks in, and what he real...

A new chapter, and a new mishnah - when a man appoints an agent to betroth a woman on his behalf, and instead the agent betrothed her to himself. With examples and commentary, and some confusion.

The daf introduces a new concept of tovat hana and asks can one take a payment for a mitzvah?

On the ox that is condemned to death - how do we know that its hide is prohibited from any benefit? As "et" was interpreted by the sages, including R. Akiva's famous inclusive interpretative approach. Also, sourcing the prohibition against benefitting from a nazir's hair or meat and milk cooked together.

More on the second tithe, ma'aser sheni - as a paradigm of deconsecrating the produce, and redeeming it, eventually. For example, you can't (or shouldn't) use ma'aser sheni money to purchase an animal outside of Jerusalem. Also, a new mishnah, with prohibited items that cannot be used for kiddushin -- because they are prohibited for benefit (items that a user can't get any benefit from, without in...

More on the dispute between R. Yehudah and R. Meir. With a mention of Shekalim - and how wandering animals are understood to have been designated for various sacrifices. Plus, the question of deconsecrating consecrated property, and if/when that is possible. Plus, the mechanism by which that deconsecrating worked.

More on what can and cannot be used for betrothal, specifically among the sanctified property, specifically the garments of the kohanim - that have not worn out. And what about the worn out garments? When does me'ilah (misuse of consecrated property) kick in? Also, the question of whether the walls of Jerusalem are consecrated, and if so, does that mean stones loose from the wall are subject to me...

A long beraita that is brought into the discussion of when betrothal with a portion of some sanctified or dedicated portion works, or doesn't. Plus, how this parallel text to our Gemara is relevant to understand the differences of opinion. Also, more analysis of the cases of the mishnah - specifically, using the second tithe (maaser sheni) for betrothal. In contrast to other gifts to God/kohanim,...

A deep dive on 5 women, including 2 sisters, who are given a basket of figs as a means of betrothal. Rav taught 3 of the 4 halakhot that the specifics of the case teach. Note the chronological restructuring of the personalities here. Also, several cases of attempted betrothal where the ownership of the betrothal item is iffy, to say the least. Also, a new mishnah - on a kohen using kodshim as an i...

A dispute between Abaye and Rava, whether a betrothal works if there's no consummation with sexual intercourse. Plus, how is this impacted by an attempt betrothal of two woman who can't be "co-wives" to begin with. Also, explaining the rationale of both Abaye and Rava, including complicated cases of betrothal to support the rational of each.

If you think your positions in your mind without articulating them, then they don't count, even when it's a positive commitment. Also, 4 new mishnayot: betrothal via shaliach with conditions, like the location of betrothal. What if she has "vows," for example, as a lien, etc. She needed to be forthcoming monetarily. She needed to divulge any relevant details... or blemishes might be grounds for di...

A conditional kiddushin - where a statement is made as a prerequisite to the betrothal. With implications for lineage status (yuchasin). Plus, a rich man who claims to be poor and vice versa. Also, 10 measures of all kinds of things that were given to the world, where specific countries or entities got 9 of those measures (beautiful Jerusalem, for example). Plus, a mishnah, continuing the discussi...

A dispute on the question of whether kiddushin works via a loan, on an oral agreement. Plus, transferring the right if collection. Also, betrothal with a document - when does it work, and when not? All via beraitot trying to understand Rav's opinion on betrothal. Also, a new mishnah: a man who betroths a woman with a cup of wine, but it turns out to be honey, or other cases of mistaken identity, a...

Betrothing with a loan does not work - but why not? What is the rationale for the mechanism not bringing about kiddushin? Perhaps the loan itself is never really considered owned by the borrower who would use it for kiddushin. Plus, how she feels about the sum total of the betrothal and the need to scrounge for it can have impact on whether the kiddushin takes effect. Also, Rav's view on the loan...