When It Clicked

What would it look like if our justice system could identify when we get things wrong – and actually fix those mistakes? WNBA legend Maya Moore stepped away from basketball at the peak of her career to help free Jonathan Irons, who spent over 20 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit. Now married, their story reveals what's possible when we stay connected across prison walls, fight to make t...

How can new technologies help prisons improve outcomes for people and communities? Outdated systems mean incarcerated people often lack a clear pathway to release – and might even overstay their prison sentence simply because of disorganized data. Clementine Jacoby, CEO and cofounder of Recidiviz, is tackling this problem by working with corrections departments across the country to modernize thei...

How can we think differently about accountability for kids in the justice system? Hollywood producer Scott Budnick built his career making blockbuster hits like The Hangover, but his real passion is working with incarcerated youth. In this episode, Scott talks about how one visit to a juvenile hall reshaped his purpose and set him on a mission to support young people caught in the justice system....

What if the key to safer cities isn’t harsher punishments, but more peacebuilding? Aqeela Sherrills helped broker the 1992 peace treaty between the Bloods and Crips – an agreement that cut LA homicides nearly in half. Since then, he’s been using that same approach to transform neighborhoods across America as co-founder of the Community-Based Public Safety Collective, where he trains everyday peopl...

How can we transform prisons so they can actually transform people? That question is at the heart of Deputy Director Josh Smith's work at the Federal Bureau of Prisons, the very system that once incarcerated him. After serving five years in federal prison, he's dedicated his life to improving public safety through prison reform, and now he's the first formerly incarcerated person to help lead the...

The American justice system punishes millions of people every year. That’s what we expect it to do – punish wrongdoing. That’s what we call justice. But what if it could do something more, something that would make this country better, stronger, and safer? In Season 2 of When It Clicked, host Ana Zamora sits down with a surprising mix of leaders and experts who are showing what a better, more prod...

What happens when an award-winning actress, producer, director, author, and activist uses her platform to shine a light on the criminal justice system? Kerry Washington's recent projects, UnPrisoned and Daughters, tell stories of incarceration, family separation, unification, and love that we rarely get to see. In our conversation, she explains how portraying a daughter navigating her father's ret...

What does it mean to be smart on crime? Jeanne Woodford, former warden at San Quentin State prison, has been a longtime advocate for rehabilitation. In our conversation, she offers a new vision of what prisons could look like, from removing prison cells to providing opportunities for incarcerated people to garden, take college courses, and even play chess with correctional officers.  Follow When i...

What happens when we give someone a second chance? For Glenn Dahl, it led to Dave's Killer Bread, a family business success story that not only revolutionized bread, but also changed how companies think about second chance hiring. Glenn, the former CEO, opens up about taking a chance on his brother Dave after his release from prison, and continuing to take a groundbreaking approach to hiring peopl...

What happens when the criminal justice system invests in education instead of punishment? Larry Miller is the Chairman of the Jordan Brand Advisory Board and played a pivotal role in the brand’s growth. Yet behind his success was a secret – at age 16, he was convicted of second degree murder, which he shares in his book, “Jump: My Secret Journey from the Streets to the Boardroom.” For Larry, it wa...

How can art transform a life? For Clarence Maclin, the answer unfolded during his incarceration at Sing Sing Correctional Facility. Through a program called Rehabilitation Through the Arts, he used theater as a way to process trauma onstage and off. Now starring in the A24 film "Sing Sing", Clarence tells us what it was like acting out his own story on the big screen. Plus, how a more compassionat...

What transforms a tough-on-crime conservative Christian from Mississippi into a powerful advocate for drug policy reform? For Christina Dent, it was her experience as a foster mom. That launched her on a path to found End It For Good, an organization fighting to revolutionize America's approach to drugs. From sharing her personal story to working with lawmakers, Christina challenges us to question...

What do a Nike executive, a conservative Christian foster mom, and a death row warden have in common? For all of these people, they had a moment when their thinking about justice and safety changed. Hear host Ana Zamora – founder of The Just Trust – talk with business leaders, advocates, actors, and unexpected changemakers to learn about when it all clicked for them, and what they’re doing about i...