Shari Dragovich and Rhea Forney
The Reader and the Writer
Our lives, from their beginnings, are storied, and find their fullness when nestled securely within the Great Story; the one that opens, “In the Beginning…” Here on The Reader and the Writer, we delight in and give witness to that Great Story by reading and discussing those excellent works of literature written since. thereaderandthewriter.substack.com
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Author
Shari Dragovich and Rhea Forney
Category
Podcast website
Latest episode
Oct 20, 2026
Where to listen?
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Episodes
Lila | Part 1 20.10.2026 1:03:39
Welcome to Lila , by Marilynne Robinson! In this episode Rhea and Shari spend a long time situating themselves in Lila’s story: the zooming in and out of the narrative distance, Lila as our narrator, her own distancing of herself from her story, her reliability as a narrator, and more. They talk about what Lila’s character is revealing about the story’s conflict, and its already developing themes....
Twenty Thousand Leagues | Part 7 13.10.2026 1:13:28
Welcome to our final episode of Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea ! In this episode, Rhea and Shari try to make sense of the story’s ending by “reading like a writer,” so, as Virginia Woof says, they can “get the right end of the string.” They discuss all the ways the ending was problematic for them, and then took all those problems and considered them more closely. They examine the “argument”...
Twenty Thousand Leagues | Part 6 06.10.2026 55:41
Welcome back to Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea! In this episode, Rhea and Shari discuss the levels of conflict continuing to thicken and boil over toward climax. They talk about Shari’s essay from last week on Verne’s use of scientific language and the affect it has on both their reading experience and ultimate understanding of the story’s meaning. They take close notice of those moments of...
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone 02.10.2026 1:40:19
Welcome to our first episode in R&W’s Harry Potter series! In this episode, Shari and Rhea discuss Book One: Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone . They talk about story status quo, inciting incidents, and how the characters move on from there. They talk about the narrator, trustworthiness, and what is revealed by our narrator’s sorta-omniscient, reporter-like style. They look at the multiple lay...
Twenty Thousand Leagues | Part 5 29.09.2026 1:02:19
Welcome back to Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea , by Jules’ Verne. In this episode, Rhea and Shari discuss the conflicting visions the story is continuing to present as we travel with Nemo and his captors. They talk about the ways this “enigmatic Nemo” is beginning more and more to rhyme with the “complicated Odysseus” (a liberator in the inverse? Hmmm… something to consider). They touch on...
Twenty Thousand Leagues | Part 4 22.09.2026 1:02:47
Welcome back to Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne. In this episode Rhea and Shari have an extensive conversation about the developing, centering conflict framing the narrative; the conflict underneath it; and whether or not these two conflicts can be separate from one another. They discuss the several significant biblical allusions in this section and wonder how these might be i...
Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea | Part 3 15.09.2026 1:04:22
Welcome back to Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne. In this episode, Rhea and Shari continue to scratch their heads over Nemo. Who is this ever-mysterious figure?? They They discuss the narrative and wonder over the central conflict. Where is the story boiling? Who is the main character? is there a central conflict? Or simply a central question? They discuss character counterpoin...
Welcome to Harry Potter! 11.09.2026 45:49
Welcome to our next school -year long read, the Harry Potter series , by J. K. Rowling! In this episode, Rhea and Shari lay talk about their biggest excitements and apprehensions about doing a close read of Harry Potter . They lay out the reading schedule, and all the fun extras they have planned for paying subscribers. They discuss an ancient, four-layered approach to examining a literary work th...
Twenty Thousand Leagues | Part 2 08.09.2026 1:02:26
Welcome to our second episode of Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea . In this episode, Shari and Rhea discuss the possibility of the characters as archetypes, Nemo as an enigma, and the idea of the places of the novel (land, sea, and Nautilus) as acting in character-like ways. They wonder about the freedom - not freedom debate Aronnax and Nemo have at the beginning of the men’s captivity, and a...
Middlemarch | Book 8 04.09.2026 1:22:03
Welcome to this final episode of Middlemarch by George Eliot. In this episode, Rhea and Shari discuss the arcs of the characters—in particular, they re-visit Rosamond’s arc (or not); the role of honor, duty, desire, societal expectations, and—of course—marriage and Middlemarch as the “home epic.” They talk about Eliot’s great use of irony throughout the novel, but in particular, her conversation a...
Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea | Part 1 01.09.2026 1:06:55
Welcome to our new slow read, Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea , by Jules Verne! In this episode, Shari and Rhea introduce Jules Verne to one another and fellow readers. They talk about their mutual surprise and enjoyment of the story as much as they do, and about the fun of Verne’s wit and gentle jabs at all the countries and their cultures. They discuss Verne’s influences and how they see t...
The Constant Nymph | Part 3 27.08.2026 1:18:04
Welcome to this final episode of The Constant Nymph, by Margaret Kennedy. In this episode, Shari and Rhea discuss Tessa as the constant nymph, Kennedy’s dark motif of “belonging” (death by possession), and all the ways she uses famous poetry to enliven these ideas. And then there is the Othello connection: the Shakespearean tragedy of destructive jealousy, perceived love-triangles, and the devasta...
The Constant Nymph | Part 2 21.08.2026 1:01:54
Welcome back to The Constant Nymph by Margaret Kennedy. In this episode, Shari and Rhea talk about the character Rhea loves to hate and Shari hates that she loves (not really… for either of us). They compare the new married couples of the story: how they are alike, how they differ; what drives them together and may ultimately drive them apart. They talk extensively of the artist’s muse: Who is Lew...
The Constant Nymph | Part 1 11.08.2026 1:01:15
Welcome to our close reading of The Constant Nymph by Margaret Kennedy! In this episode, Shari and Rhea introduce the story, give a short background of its evolution and success, then dive into the narrative. They talk about Kennedy’s wicked talent with characterization, and how she is able to create characters that are both vividly real and also “types” for her satirical purposes. They discuss th...
Middlemarch | Book 7 07.08.2026 1:00:47
Welcome to Book 7 of Middlemarch , by George Eliot. In this episode, Rhea and Shari discuss character arcs, compassion and pity, fate and freewill, duty and desire. They consider the way Eliot developed each character and how this has affected our personal feelings of different characters. And they wonder what the “two temptations” really are, both at the story level and meta level. Only one more...
A History of the Island | Part 4 04.08.2026 1:00:26
Welcome to our last episode of A History of the Island . In this episode, Rhea and Shari consider questions like: What is the final significance of the Publisher’s Note at the beginning of the novel? Is this novel an allegory for Ecclesiastes? Can we ever fully understand the past on this side of eternity? What do we make of Jean-Marie’s shift in his design for his film? What role does fate and fr...
The History of the Island | Part 3 30.07.2026 1:04:57
Welcome back to A History of the Island ! In this episode, Shari and Rhea discuss the growing cast of characters in the story, and how the French film-makers seem to be playing a larger role in the story; Parfeny’s and Ksenia’s story, in particular. They ask questions about history and reality, who’s telling the story, and who gets to decide? They revisit again the question of the medieval v. the...
History of the Island | Part 2 21.07.2026 1:05:55
Welcome back to A History of the Island by Eugene Vodolazkin. In this episode, Shari and Rhea discuss the move of the chronicle from the medieval to the modern eras. They talk about what is lost when the comet is no more seen as a dragon, how beauty and mystery are intricately connected, and whether or not they think Vodolazkin is criticizing modernity’s view of how history ought to be chronicled....
A History of the Island | Part 1 14.07.2026 1:07:56
“The reason for circumstance, says Agafon, is people, not God.” “…long life has convinced me that people themselves create their own circumstances.” —Parfeny (p. 7) Welcome to A History of the Island by Eugene Vodolazkin. In this episode, Rhea and Shari spend a fair amount of time trying to situate themselves in this highly unusual novel where the book itself is also the subject of the story; that...
Middlemarch | Book 6 10.07.2026 1:26:27
Welcome to Middlemarch , Book Six. It’s hard to believe there’s only two books left! We’re definitely going to make the most of them. In this episode, Shari and Rhea discuss all the unsaid saying that is happening throughout this section, and all the gossip, too. They talk about how Eliot uses these communication gaffs to her narrative power, to develop and reveal characters, and express themes sh...
Hannah Coulter | Part 3 07.07.2026 1:22:48
Welcome to our final episode of Hannah Coulter , by Wendell Berry. In this episode Rhea and Shari explore questions surrounding expectations versus hope, what we owe our children, what the culture tells us we owe our children, and what the price is for leaving the Membership. They talk about “failed love,” eternity happening now, and the experience of “waking up dead.” They talk about the prodigal...
Hannah Coulter | Part 2 30.06.2026 1:10:22
But you may have a long journey to travel to meet somebody in the innermost inwardness and sweetness of that room. You can’t get there just by wanting to, or just because the night falls. The meeting is prepared in the long day, in the work of years, in the keeping of faith, in kindness. (p. 110, on the room of love) Welcome back to Hannah Coulter , by Wendell Berry. In this 2nd episode, Rhea and...
Hannah Coulter | Part 1 23.06.2026 1:11:35
“This is my story, my giving of thanks.” —Hannah Coulter (p. 5) Welcome to Hannah Coulter , by Wendell Berry. In this episode, Rhea and Shari discuss the power of Wendell’s work in and for their lives. They talk about his way of seeing every single thing that opens up to us a story that, as Hannah writes in the beginning: weighs upon us, presses against us and fills all our senses to overflowing (...
Beloved | Part 4 16.06.2026 1:07:00
“The pieces I am, she gather them and give them back to me in all the right order. It’s good, you know, when you got a woman who is a friend of your mind.” —Sixo to Paul D. Only this woman, Sethe could have left him his manhood like that. He wanted to put his story next to hers. Welcome to our final episode of Beloved, by Toni Morrison. In this episode, Shari and Rhea discuss the first images, and...
Middlemarch | Book 5 12.06.2026 1:16:28
“What is it you gentlemen are thinking of when you are with Mrs. Casaubon?” “Herself,” said Will…. When one sees a perfect woman, one never thinks of her attributes—one is conscious of her presence.” (409) Welcome back to Middlemarch. In this episode, Shari & Rhea discuss beauty and love from multiple characters’ perspectives. What is love and beauty according to Will Ladislaw? Lydgate? Rosamond?...
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