The Inverted Podcast

Identity is Changing Fast: AI Agents, Passkeys & Digital ID Explained | Inverted Podcast Digital identity is evolving rapidly — from passwords to passkeys, from users to AI agents. In this episode of the Inverted Podcast, we break down the biggest trends in identity security, authentication, and authorization , including the rise of AI agents , phishing-resistant login methods , and government...

In this episode of the Inverted Podcast, we dive into one of the most overlooked — and risky — aspects of modern digital systems: account recovery . Joined by security expert Dean H. Saxe , the conversation explores why recovery isn’t just a backup feature, but often the weakest link in your entire authentication system . From real-world examples of compromised accounts to the surprising ways atta...

What makes a company truly incorruptible? In this special episode of the Inverted Podcast , Jeroen, Dana, and Dario sit down with legendary entrepreneur and The Lean Startup author Eric Ries to explore the ideas behind his new book, "Incorruptible: Why Good Companies Go Bad…and How Great Companies Stay Great " Together, they unpack why some companies stay true to their values while other...

How Do You Build AI Products That Are Compliant Before It’s Too Late? In this special episode of the Inverted podcast, host Dario Salice sits down with Dexter Awoyemi , an independent AI systems architect working at the intersection of AI, regulation, and product design . Together, they explore what it really means to build AI systems responsibly—before compliance becomes a painful afterthought. D...

🎙️ Inverted Podcast #20 — Targeted Attacks: Protecting High‑Risk People and Organizations 🎙️ What does it really mean to be a high‑risk user—and how are targeted attacks different from everyday phishing and scams? In this episode of the Inverted Podcast , Jeroen Kemperman is joined by co-hosts Dario Salice and Dana Kaufman, with special guest Mike Sager, to break down the world of targeted cyberat...

In this compelling episode of The Inverted Podcast, host Jeroen Kemperman is joined by co-hosts Dario Salice and Dana Kaufman, along with special guest Olivia, a travel content creator based in Switzerland. Olivia bravely shares her firsthand experience of being hacked—a story that highlights the real-world risks faced by digital creators and the importance of robust online security. Listeners wil...

🎙️ Inverted Podcast #18: Digital Legacy – Will You Continue to Live as AI After You Die? What happens to your digital life when you’re gone? In this episode of the Inverted Podcast, the hosts explore the emerging and deeply human topic of "digital legacy"—the data, accounts, and digital identities we leave behind when we die or become incapacitated. From locked email accounts and smart h...

Join the hosts of The Inverted Podcast for our first ever in-person recording as they dive into the world of bug bounty programs with special guest Marcel Eyer from GoBugFree in Zurich. In this episode, the team discusses the evolution of bug bounty platforms, the importance of external security testing, and the challenges companies face when deciding between public and private bounty programs. Yo...

In this episode, the Inverted Podcast dives deep into the unconventional world of cybersecurity with special guest Olivier Martinet, Chief Information and Security Officer of TX Group—the largest private media group in Switzerland. Hosts Jeroen, Dario Salice, and Dana Kaufman explore how TX Group balances modern security practices with the unique demands of a media organization, from protecting cr...

In the second part of this special two-episode series, the hosts of the Inverted podcast continue their deep dive into how the Business Model Canvas applies to security products and companies. Building on the foundation set in part one, this episode explores the practical challenges and strategic decisions that security businesses face as they scale, partner, and evolve. Key topics include: Recap...

This is part one of a special two-episode series where the hosts of the Inverted podcast explore how the Business Model Canvas—a strategic framework for visualizing and designing business models—applies to both traditional companies and the world of security products. The conversation begins with an overview of the nine building blocks of the canvas, illustrated through real-world examples like LE...

In this episode, Jeroen, Dario Salice, and Dana Kaufman dive deep into the challenges of building secure products in a world obsessed with perfection. The hosts discuss the recent debate around synced passkeys and whether synchronizing credentials across devices truly undermines security. They break down sensational headlines, explore the real risks versus perceived threats, and share practical st...

In this episode, the hosts and guests explore the challenges and strategies of risk quantification in security and product management. The conversation covers why traditional risk labels like “low, medium, high” often fall short, and emphasizes the importance of defining exactly what risk is being measured. The panel discusses practical approaches to mapping business dependencies, understanding di...

🎙️The Inverted Podcast #11: AI and Security🎙️In this episode of the Inverted Product Management podcast, the hosts and guests dive deep into the evolving landscape of AI risk and security. The discussion covers how AI is transforming both the tactics of attackers and the strategies defenders must use to keep organizations safe. The panel explores real-world examples of phishing, the challenges of...

🎙️Inverted Product Management Podcast #10: Building security products for small vs large businesses with Tim Ehrhart 🎙️In this episode of the Inverted Product Management podcast, Tim Ehrhart CISO at F. Hoffmann-La Roche Ltd joins the panel to explore the unique challenges and strategies involved in building and selling security products for both small businesses (SMBs) and large enterprises. The d...

🎙️Inverted Product Management Podcast #9: User-Centric Security – Making Security Work for Real People🎙️In this episode of the Inverted Product Management podcast, host Jeroen Kemperman is joined by Dario Salice, Tom Williamson, Dana Kaufman, and special guest Cristina Vintila, an expert in security operations and cryptosystems. Together, they dive deep into the concept of user-centric security—ex...

🎙️ Inverted Product Management Podcast #8: Social Engineering – The Human Factor in Security 🎙️ In this episode of the Inverted Product Management Podcast, hosts Jeroen Kemperman, Dana Kaufman, Dario Salice, and Tom Williamson dive deep into the world of social engineering and its impact on modern security practices. The panel shares real-world stories—from SIM swap scams to high-profile breaches—...

🎙️ Episode 7: Scraping, Extensions & the Shifting Threat Landscape – What Inverted PMs Need to Know 🎙️In this episode of the Inverted Product Management Podcast, hosts Dario, Dana, and Tom tackle the evolving world of web scraping and the surprising role browser extensions play in enabling abuse. Inspired by a recent discovery of a botnet embedded in Chrome extensions, the team explores: ✅ Ho...

🎙️ Episode 6: Using Cost to Defend Against Abuse – Strategic Friction in Security Product Management🎙️In this episode of Inverted Product Management Podcast, hosts Jeroen, Dario, and Dana explore how injecting cost into attacker journeys can disrupt abuse at scale—without alienating legitimate users. From fake accounts to hijacked credentials, the team breaks down: ✅ How attackers operate like bu...

🎙️ Episode 5: Business Models for Inverted Products – Security, Identity & Trust at Scale 🎙️In this episode of Inverted Product Management Podcast, hosts Dana, Dario, Tom, and special guest Mark Risher explore the complex business models behind security and identity products—where success often means nothing happens. From startups to global platforms, the conversation dives into:✅ The tension...

💥 Episode 4: Damage as the Ultimate Metric in Security Product Management 💥In this episode of Inverted Product Management Podcast, hosts Dana, Dario, Tom, and Williamson explore a powerful concept: damage as the ultimate metric in security, abuse prevention, and identity protection. Traditional metrics like prevention and detection often pull teams in opposite directions. But what if we focused...

🔍 Episode 3: Critical Attacker Journey – The Inverted PM Perspective 🔍 Welcome to Episode 3 of Inverted Product Management Podcast! This time, we take a deep dive into Critical Attacker Journeys, the flip side of traditional user experiences that inverted PMs must navigate to manage security, fraud, and abuse prevention. Join hosts Dana, Tom, Dario, and Williamson as they break down: ✅ How secu...

🔍 Episode2: The "Invisible Line" - the measurement of badness in your systems 🔍This podcast series explores topics related to the creation and use of product in the areas of Security, privacy, online safety, infrastructure security etc. We call these people Inverted Product people because the primary goals for these product people are somehow inverted: success is "when nothing happens". There ar...

This podcast series explores topics related to the creation and use of product in the areas of Security, privacy, online safety, infrastructure security etc. We call these people Inverted Product people because the primary goals for these product people are somehow inverted: success is "when nothing happens". There are fundamental differences in metrics, strategies, personas, communication, and ro...