The Church Lobby

“What's wrong with being just a normal church?” That’s the question at the center of Thomas Austin’s song, Normal Church. In this episode, Karl Vaters interviews Thomas Austin about the content of his song, including where the idea for it came from, some of the criticism he’s received for it, and what message he’s trying to convey through it. Some of what comes through in this conversation include...

Discontent is a tricky monster. It’s so easy to spot it in others, but easy to overlook in ourselves. Karl Vaters interviews pastor Chris Maxwell about what contentment is not (laziness or mediocrity), what it is (an inner peace), what causes so much discontentment, why contentment is essential for healthy lives and ministries, and so much more. This is based on the content of Chris’ new book, Con...

Kevin Foster is the founding pastor of LifeBridge Community Church in Fresno, CA, a church that made a radical shift in emphasis several years ago when the brokenness of the people in their lower income city led them to run to the brokenness. Karl and Kevin talk about: Redefining success in ministry How young leaders are not rejecting ministry—they’re rejecting the narrow definitions they’ve seen...

Karl Vaters talks with Sam Rainer about some massive changes that are happening, and how the looming pastoral shortage will affect everything about the way churches function in the next generation or two . Based on Sam’s article, The Coming Massive Wave of Retiring Pastors and Church Staff , this conversation covers what caused this crisis along with some hopeful solutions including the rise of bi...

Prayer is a foundation of a healthy Christian life and church. Karl Vaters talks with Chris Paavola about four strategic ways his church prays that can help any church lay a more solid foundation for health. The foundation of this conversation is a talk Chris gives to pastors, titled 4 Ways Small Churches Can Grow in Prayer. Sunday Intercessory Prayer Prayer Services Prayerwalking A new way to tak...

Karl Vaters talks with Tim Walker about three important subjects: First, they talk about the new world of the “side hustle” culture, and why it can be an answer for pastors and churches to do more ministry with less stress. Second, the importance of creating margin in our life, our finances, our time, our energy, and our families. Third, Tim introduces us to the importance of time away from the ch...

Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Shaunti Feldhahn and Dr. James N. Sells about the state of mental and emotional care in our culture, and how churches are uniquely situated to alleviate these needs in healthy, life-giving ways. The conversation focuses on the CARE strategy (Coordinated Attention, Restoration, and Encouragement), and how churches of any size can be better equipped to help, starting with...

Karl Vaters talks with Peyton Jones about the severe need for our churches to become better at the main command Jesus gave His church: making disciples. Peyton is the author of several books, including the newly released, Discipology: The Art and Science of Making Disciples , which is the basis for this conversation. The stats are troubling. In a recent survey, pastors acknowledged that disciplesh...

Karl Vaters interviews Darryl Dash, a long-time pastor in Toronto, Canada. Darryl recently wrote the article, Advice to New and Aspiring Pastors , for The Gospel Coalition, Canada in which raised several issues that are helpful, not just for younger pastors, but for anyone who wants to be a better pastor for the long haul. Links: Advice to New and Aspiring Pastors DashHouse.com Gospel for Life Pod...

Karl Vaters talks with Kurt W. Bubna about what to do if you’re a Christian leader who has betrayed people and broken trust. This conversation was sparked by the Facebook post, An Open Letter to Philip Yancey Regarding His Extramarital Affair , that Bubna wrote in early January. So many have opined about Yancey, and understandably so, but most of them know little if anything about his situation, i...

Karl Vaters talks to Laurie Graham about some of the big ways volunteerism has changed, and how we, as church leaders, can respond to these trends. Laurie runs smallchurchministry.com , an online ministry that provides resources and support for volunteers and ministry leaders in smaller churches. This is Laurie’s second time on the podcast (the last time she was known as Laurie Acker), and in this...

Karl Vaters talks through some helpful guidelines with Dave Ripper about how to read, meditate, and teach from the Bible in a richer, deeper way. Dave is the lead pastor of Crossway Christian Church, a multicongregational church in southern New Hampshire, focused on spiritual formation, and is the author of Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus: Reading the Bible like Dallas Willard . Karl...

Have you ever gone to a church growth conference and been told “all healthy things grow?” Karl Vaters talks with Jeff Hoglen about what’s happening behind that idea, and why it can be a problem for a lot of pastors and churches. The conversation is based on an article Jeff wrote, called “ The Church Growth Lie No One Talks About .” Karl and Jeff talk about what that lie is, why we keep believing i...

Karl Vaters talks with Brad Edwards about the shift that’s happened over the last decade or so in how people perceive institutions, especially the institutional church. In this conversation they talk about how the rise of radical individualism has replaced once-trusted institutions, why a distrust in institutions is problematic, and why institutions—especially the church—still matter. Brad is a ch...

Do you know how to spot if someone in your congregation has a gambling problem? Once it’s been spotted or confessed, do you know what to do? Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Don Lichi about one of the fastest-growing addictions in the world, including: How is gambling defined? Why does it have such a strong grip on some people? Who is most likely to be addicted? How to get help And more Donald Lichi&nbs...

Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Jeff Forrey about grief, recovery, and how your church can help people, both inside and outside the congregation, deal with grief in healthy ways. Grief has no rules, but there are healthy ways through it. And churches—small churches especially—are uniquely suited to provide real comfort for people in these difficult seasons of loss. Karl and Jeff talk about some importa...

In recent decades, parachurch organizations have carved out an important space in church life and ministry. Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Angie Ward about why it’s important for ministers to take a closer look at what the church is, what parachurch organizations bring to the mix, and how we can move forward more missionally, even as the emphasis on institutions diminishes. Dr. Ward is director of the...

If you’re a preaching pastor, you know what it means to feel the burden and the joy of preparing and preaching a sermon every Sunday. No matter how many years we’ve done it, we can always use a little more help to do it better. Karl Vaters talks with Austin Carty about the craft of writing and delivering a weekly sermon, based on Austin’s latest book,  Some of the Words Are Theirs: The Art of...

What happens when all the church growth principles that were working in your church, suddenly stop working when you need them the most? Karl Vaters interviews Paul Dazet about what happened to him, as the pastor of a fast-growing church shortly after he was diagnosed with cancer. Over 100 members left, saying things like “I just can’t handle being sad at church,” and “It used to be so energetic. Y...

Karl Vaters interviews Leanne Friesen about grief. Specifically, how pastors, family members, and other caring people can help give people the room to process their grief when they go through a profound loss. Karl and Leanne also talk about how to process those feelings ourselves. Leanne is a former pastor and is the author of  Grieving Room: Making Space for All the Hard Things after De...

Karl Vaters talks with Darrell Stetler about a new AI program Darrell has created, called Sermon Illustrator. After a short introduction to what AI is, and some of the advantages and dangers of using it, they narrow in on this tool that helps pastors with a very specific task – finding illustrations (stories, metaphors, historical events, and so on) that can give your well-prepared sermon a story,...

Karl Vaters talks with Luke Simmons, the pastor of  Ironwood Church  in Mesa, AZ. Recently, Luke and his church elders decided to pursue a very ambitious goal with the aim of helping their large, growing congregation feel smaller and more connected. As a big-church pastor, Luke is not a typical Church Lobby guest, but he and Karl follow each other on X (formerly Twitter) and when Lu...

Over the last few months, several of our podcasts have been about bivo/covocationality, side hustles for pastors, and so on. And more are on the way. Why? Because the future of the church is bivocational. In this episode, Karl Vaters talks to Andrew Hamilton about the content from his book,  The Future is Bivocational: Shaping Christian Leaders for a Post-Christian World , including the theol...

*ATTENTION NEEDED* Help us get to Malaysia by going to KarlVaters.com/support Anything you can give will be appreciated. Karl Vaters interviews Bryan Sims about creating an environment for discipleship to thrive, from his book,  Creating Space: Cultivating Environments for Disciples of Jesus to Thrive and Multiply  (co-written with Craig Robertson). In the first half of the book, an...

Karl Vaters interviews Derek Maxson about some simple ways to make sure your church website is reaching the three kinds of people who are most likely to use it. Derek runs Spiffy. Church, an online ministry that specializes in helping smaller churches get the most from their websites, using limited time and resources. Derek and Karl talk about how to optimize your church website by making it simpl...