The Art of Grief

Karen and Megan recorded LIVE with the actor, comedian and performance artist Kate Berlant as part of the "Unscripted" program at the Park Avenue Armory earlier this month. They get into how we all, to a certain extent "perform" grief through certain public rituals like funerals, while tapping into the humor of not exactly knowing how or what to do with our bodies in those moments. Plus, we learn...

Shawn Taylor, a coach, consultant, Senior Fellow with the Pop Culture Collaborative and author of the recent book The Alphabet for New and Expecting Fathers , joins us to talk about the vicissitudes of  masculinity and grief. His new performance project-turned-short film, Speak and Carry tackles how men-of-color grieve their lost friends and loved ones, while showing up for each others' families a...

Gil Hochberg, a professor at Columbia University and the author of the new memoir My Father the Messiah (2026), joins us for a discussion of this creative nonfiction text that explores the intersections of  mental illness, religion, queerness, Judaism, Zionism and anti-Zionism. Hochberg reconstructs her relationship with her father through an archive of letters between the two of them, as well as...

Writer, multimedia journalist and a producer for KCRW's Good Food, Elina Shatkin, joins us for a candid, moving conversation about what it's like to lose her mother unexpectedly (while  she was 7 months pregnant), right before caring for her newborn daughter. Elina and her mom immigrated from Ukraine (in the former USSR) in the late 1970s, and she was raised with a single mom's "scrappy," hard wor...

Chief restaurant critic for The New York Times, Tejal Rao joins us to talk about her recent article, "That Restaurant You Love Will Close One Day. What to Do?" Beyond talking about how we grieve the loss of our favorite "third spaces," we get into how to become a regular at restaurants, as well as how food critics become the archivists for our experiences there. We also speak more broadly about th...

Dr. Jack Saul, a psychologist and artist, joins us for a conversation about the concept of moral injury explored in his practice, and in his public arts project Moral Injuries of War , which undertakes a national public reckoning on United States war-making and war culture. As a psychologist and family therapist, Dr. Saul created programs in New York City and abroad for populations that have endur...

Comedian, author and actor Guy Branum (Bros, Platonic) joins us to talk about his new one-man show, Be Fruitful. We explore the concept of "pre-grieving," especially as we enter middle age, and consider how love and grief are intertwined.

Megan and Karen return with Season 2 of the "Art of Grief" by exploring the concepts of unrelenting and compounded grief. Even as we began this podcast last year to process specific losses, we have been confronted with new emotional challenges, shocking losses and seemingly insurmountable obstacles. This gives us the opportunity to explore what Megan describes as both "micro" and "macro" forms of...

The preeminent music critic, award-winning author, and Yale professor Daphne Brooks joins us for a wide ranging conversation about music as an expression of grief and a portal to our feelings. We learn about what it's like to bear "aural witness" across generations and communities, and get a better sense of why Brooks' own writing is so elegiac.

Reverend Christina Shu, Lead Interfath Chaplain at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, joins us for an intimate conversation about holding space for those confronting mortality and loss. She shares the transformative nature of being present with people as they grapple with the deepest questions.  We discuss the delicate art of spiritual care across diverse faith traditions, the cumulative weight of grief...

Writer and cook Millicent Soros joins us to explore her journey of understanding loss and the power of food to connect and heal. From early experiences of unprocessed grief to finding catharsis through cooking, Millicent shares insights on moving through pain, the fine line between coping and avoidance, and embracing the messy reality of emotions. 

MacArthur Genius Fellow, writer and historian Natalia Molina joins us to talk about scripts of grief, as well as how we become open to signs from beyond in the processes of grieving and healing. We also discuss her award-winning essay, "How I learned the Dodgers are L.A.'s Language of Love," which speaks with an open heart about her brother David's unexpected death, and the celebration of their li...

We are joined by voices from around the city of Los Angeles to talk about their personal experiences with the L.A. wildfires, and communal grief in the wake of these catastrophic events. We also ask about their hopes for the future not only for themselves, but our community.  Guests include: Myriam Gurba, Mai-Lin Cheng, Margaret Wappler, Guy Branum, Lien Ta, Natalia Molina, Sarah Gertrude Shapiro,...

This week we are joined by Hala Alyan, a Palestinian-American writer, poet, and clinical psychologist, who is also a professor at NYU. A specialist in trauma and cross-cultural identity, and the author of the award-winning novel Salt Houses, as well as four collections of poetry, including The Moon that Turns You Back (2024), Hala brings her expertise as a psychologist and a writer to talk about b...

Karen and Megan record their first holiday special, and themselves get caught off-guard by some of their own holiday feelings, including the confluence of grief and joy. Karen opens up about the difficulty of Christmas this year, as well as in years past because it was her grandmother's favorite holiday. Megan talks about seeing the holidays anew through the eyes of her two young children. They al...

Bereavement facilitator, author, and host of the podcast Good Mourning Today, Japhena Kay, joins us for a candid conversation about losing her son Chase to suicide, while animating her processes of grief that have evolved and transformed in the years since. She and Megan met in a grief group specifically for those who've lost their loved ones to suicide, and they both reflect on the meaningfulness...

In June 2019, Colin Campbell and his wife Gail Lerner lost both of their children, Ruby and Hart when a drunk driver hit their car and changed a pleasant family outing into the worst day imaginable. Megan and Karen invite Colin to discuss the book he wrote in the wake of that tragedy, Finding the Words: Working Through Profound Loss with Hope and Purpose, which offers an honest account of his jour...

Megan and Karen check in with each other after the 2024 election, and discuss their own range of emotional responses, including grief, anger, and even a sense of tragicomedy. They also offer some thoughts around how to take care of yourselves and others during this intense, confrontational and difficult time. 

This week we are joined by Dr. Regina N. Bradley, a prominent public voice on contemporary southern Black life and hip hop culture, who is the author of the widely-acclaimed book, Chronicling Stankonia: the Rise of the Hip-Hop South. Dr. Bradley candidly talks about her efforts to heal and return to a daily practice of writing, after the trauma of her grandmother's murder at the hands of another f...

Globally renowned artist Cherine Fahd joins us to talk about the role photography plays in visualizing grief. Based in Australia, her own photographic work and writing not only celebrate the communities around her and their public lives, but delves deeply into what is more difficult to see and say, from family mourning as its captured in private photo archives, to death by suicide and the efforts...

We welcome writer Raquel Gutierrez into our virtual studio during Mercury in Retrograde (resulting in a chirping smoke alarm and other markers of "real life" in our conversation). With a minor astrological detour, we talk about grieving the father figures within our chosen queer families, as well as our families of origin.  What relations are we allowed to grieve? For Raquel, their Big Poppa was t...

Jeopardy! super champion and host of the CBC's Bookends radio show, Mattea Roach, joins us for a candid conversation about losing their father unexpectedly while filming the Jeopardy Masters series in May 2023. Together we explore the dissonant and sometimes simultaneous experiences of grief and joy, while also honoring queer support networks and the power of our own magical thinking (for better a...

Writer and filmmaker Naz Riahi joins us to talk about the  devastation of losing our animal soulmates. What is the particular character of loss we experience when we lose the daily physical presence and companionship of our dogs, cats and other pets?  What about the isolation we encounter while grieving our pets, especially because grief for non-humans can be diminished or judged as "inappropriate...

Comedian, writer, actor and Self Help Me-guru Jenny Yang joins us this week to talk about the thin line between laughter and tears, and the global, cumulative griefs she–and we–have experienced over the last five years. Jenny offers an emotionally honest account of her fertility challenges, and how she confronted that grief with a healing, satirical photo project using the aesthetics of "birth ann...

Welcome to The Art of Grief, a podcast featuring conversations between  artists, creators, mental health professionals, and spiritual guides to explore the many forms of loss and grief, and the different ways we use art to cope with those feelings.  In our premiere episode, you meet hosts Karen Tongson and Megan Auster-Rosen and hear about their shared histories of grief as they cut across their f...