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As When We All Get to Heaven wraps up, Christina sits down with series host Lynne Gerber and producer Siri Colum. They discuss how the church has changed, the value of fleeting queer spaces, and what a decade or more spent working on this story has meant to—and taught—them. Get more Outward with Slate Plus! Join for weekly bonus episodes of Outward and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate...

In the final episode of When We All Get to Heaven, we catch up on what’s happened in the many years between the emergence of effective treatment for AIDS in the late ‘90s and the fall of 2025, when we recorded this episode. We linger on a moment back in June 1999, when Jim was still pastor and called on the church to remember that AIDS wasn’t over. Because—advances notwithstanding—it still isn’t o...

This week, Senate Democrats will hold a vote on extending expiring Affordable Care Act tax credits to try to prevent health insurance premiums from skyrocketing for millions of Americans. That vote is basically guaranteed to fail. Where did these credits come from, and what’s likely to happen when they (almost) inevitably lapse? Guest: Julie Rovner, chief Washington correspondent for KFF Health Ne...

Today, the CDC’s vaccine advisory committee will be meeting to vote on recommendations for childhood vaccinations. But under RFK Jr.’s leadership, this committee looks much different now than it did a year ago. How is the impact from the HHS secretary being seen across America today?  Guest: Dr. Paul Offit,  Director of the Vaccine Education Center and professor of pediatrics in the Division of In...

In 1996 everything changed. With the introduction of antiretroviral medications called the “AIDS cocktail,” people started getting better – some dramatically – and surviving AIDS became a real possibility. In the wake of these changes, MCC found itself taking stock of what they lost to AIDS and using what they learned to address larger social issues– from medical marijuana to homelessness. Sometim...

In 1995 Rev. Jim Mitulski became HIV positive -- what's known as seroconversion. It was 14 years into the epidemic and people knew what HIV/AIDS was, how you got it, and how you could prevent it. And when Jim got sick, he got very sick. What was it like to become ill so publicly? How would the church and the community respond? And what could Jim possibly preach about on his first Sunday back? “My...

When the Metropolitan Community Church was founded in the late sixties, it was one of the first gay positive churches in America. When AIDS hit, it became a refuge for people who were sick and those who were mourning them.  In this episode, Anna talks to researcher Lynne Gerber, about finding boxes of cassettes under the church floor in an MCC church in San Francisco, and how those recordings of s...

Between the drastic budget cuts and provisions in the Big Beautiful Bill, the Trump administration has found a way to drain Planned Parenthood and other reproductive health centers and cut off access to abortion services—as well as any other health care those clinics provided.  Guests:  Shefali Luthra, reproductive health reporter at The 19th, author of Undue Burden: Life and Death Decisions in Po...

On this episode: Lucy Lopez, Elizabeth Newcamp, and Zak Rosen are joined by mother-daughter writing team Leslie and Lindsey Glass. They share their estrangement and reconnection that led to their book The Mother Daughter Relationship Makeover. They give advice for how to deal with toxic personalities around the dinner table and at parties, talk about when estrangement might be the answer, and more...

Scott and Bruce were the hottest couple in church. Scott, a hula dancer, seemed destined for Bruce, the hunky “lumbersexual,” and the church delighted when they got together. Their brief love affair sparkled before Bruce got sick and died. Their story is one of multiple “dress rehearsals”– when friends, family and lovers went through AIDS with their loved ones wondering who would be next and somet...

Even though the documentary Tig Notaro produced won the Festival Favorite Award at Sundance, she did not spend the festival hobnobbing with industry types. Instead she stayed holed up at the Airbnb she rented with friends and the film's crew. "We were calling it Snuggle Down because we were all sitting around the fire and having tea and just laughing so hard." Among the people at Snuggle Down was...

On this episode: Lucy Lopez, Elizabeth Newcamp, and Zak Rosen share their experiences with postpartum depression. Then, Elizabeth is joined by Danielle Learner to talk about Danielle’s experience with postpartum depression, her activism to raise awareness on the issue, and a lot of tips and advice for people who struggle with postpartum depression or know someone struggling.  Podcast production by...

The Sunday after Magic Johnson announced his HIV-status, Jim Mitulski preached a sermon on being tired of people dying. We’re sharing it as an interlude, a pause, and an immersion into one moment in AIDS’ bleak midwinter.  For images and links about this episode visit https://www.heavenpodcast.org/interlude. In the sermon Rev. Mitulski refers to ARC. That means AIDS-Related Complex, a diagnostic c...

On this episode: Lucy Lopez, Elizabeth Newcamp, and Zak Rosen are joined by Sydney Bassard from The Listening SLP to dig into everything you need to know about hearing loss, practical speech, language, and literacy with your kids.  But first, Lucy weighs in on the great flower girl controversy.  Podcast production by Cheyna Roth. Join us on Facebook and email us at careandfeedingpod@slate.com to a...

San Francisco’s gay/lesbian community in the 1980s wasn’t just facing an AIDS crisis, they also struggled against ongoing  anti-gay violence. In 1989, in the midst of a campaign to legally establish anti-gay violence as a hate crime, MCC San Francisco made headlines when their AIDS minister was attacked in her home. The city, the police department, and the LGBTQ community rallied around the church...

Country musician Luke Bell had swagger, talent, and a career on the rise, opening for Willie Nelson and Dwight Yoakam. Then mental illness took over. His mother Carol shares what it was like raising Luke, the fine line between his bold personality and paranoid delusions, and navigating his years of homelessness and psychosis before his death at 32.  Listen to his posthumous album, The King Is Back...

When Rev. Ron Russell Coons got diagnosed with AIDS he thought a lot about what healing meant when death was certain. He pursued it in his strained and broken family relationships and he preached about it from the pulpit. Though he knew, without a doubt, that he would die from AIDS, Ron claimed that he believed in and had experienced healing. What does healing mean when everybody knows it can’t me...

Why SNAP benefits potentially won’t be replenished Nov. 1, and what happens to the people who depend on them to eat. Guest: Dr. Lindsay Allen, health economist and policy researcher at Northwestern University. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by click...

As MCC grew as a denomination, they tried to figure out if and how to relate to other churches. Would any befriend a queer church? And if so, would that friendship help other churches shift their perspective on homosexuality? These questions got harder as AIDS numbers grew—it made people more afraid yet friendship more vital. But sometimes friendship emerges in the most unlikely of places. Like wh...

Andrew Zaleski couldn’t stop snoring. Fed up, he did what any good journalist would do: He started digging. On this episode of How To!, Andrew tells Courtney Martin about his investigation into sawing logs, his experiments with anti-snoring devices, and what he learned from sleep experts while reporting his recent story for Slate. Episodes Mentioned:  How To Stop Snoring (and Breathe Easier) How T...

Thousands of children may be avoiding peanut allergies thanks to research indicating that early exposure to—rather than avoidance of—the legume is key. Now there’s reason to believe this is true for tons of allergens – and that the great “pandemic” of kid food allergies never needed to happen. Guest:  Dr. David Hill, attending physician with the Division of Allergy and Immunology at Children's Hos...

In the late ‘80s, two MCC San Francisco ministers wrote an article called “We Are the Church Alive, the Church with AIDS.” We wanted to know how a gay/lesbian church came to call itself “a church with AIDS.” The answers lie in the years before our audio archive begins. So we started asking people. We explore two stories in what’s likely a more complicated shift. One story is about a pair of religi...

On this episode: Lucy Lopez, Elizabeth Newcamp, and Zak Rosen are tackling picky eating. They’re joined by Jennifer Anderson from Kids Eat In Color to talk about helping kids navigate diet culture, how to tell if your kid is a “normal” picky eater or a problematic picky eater, why you shouldn’t try to sneak foods into foods they like, and more! But first, they share their latest triumphs and fails...

Why would an out queer person in the Gay Liberation Days of the 1970s go to church? What church would they go to? And why would they stay? In the 1960s, and ‘70s, the separation between God and gays was not as vast as it seemed. Rev. Troy Perry started the first Metropolitan Community Church in his Los Angeles living room. Tired of flying to LA every week, a Navy veteran started the second one in...

As Outward proudly presents the 10-episode series When We All Get to Heaven, from Eureka Street Productions, Christina and Bryan had the privilege of sitting down with series host Lynne Gerber. Lynne explains how 1,200 cassette tapes became a wealth of archival audio that infuses this series with so much vitality, joy, and shared mourning of queer churches during a devastating epidemic. Get more O...