Second Nature

Payson McElveen is a professional mountain biker, gravel racer and podcaster - host of With Pace (previously known as The Adventure Stache). During this discussion, Payson shares his approach to business as an athlete and podcaster, comparing notes on his journey as a media operator in the outdoor industry with Dylan and Aaron. Show Notes: Payson McElveen: https://www.instagram.com/paysonmcelveen/...

Nathan Helming co-founded The Run Experience during the early days of YouTube, when ideas like the creator economy - or even the monetization of content - were part of the equation. Nathan and his team built the channel, coaching, subscription and membership platform for nearly eight years before moving to an acquisition. In today's discussion, Nathan shares the entire lifecycle of the business, f...

Second Nature turns 1 year old on March 22, 2025 and a lot has happened in the outdoor industry during that time. Two specific topics came up this past week, and we wanted to take some time to discuss the impact on the industry: OnlyFans supporting athletes and Outside's latest news cycle. An interesting time for the outdoor industry, to say the least. Show Notes: Big Alta: https://www.daybreakrac...

Jake Thomas is the wizard at one of the most important, but also most commonly overlooked skills in brand building. He writes the Creator Hooks newsletter and founded Creator Hooks Pro, a software service that helps brands and creators tackle impactful copywriting. His primary focus is YouTube titles - but that same skill set applies to all forms of writing where capturing attention is the primary...

Kate Courtney entered a new era when she launched her own race team to bring visibility to her foundation, She Sends. In this podcast, we dig into the previous eras that led up to this one - starting with her entry into the sport of mountain biking, her life-changing world championship win, and the behind the scenes effort that has gotten her to this stage of her career. Show Notes: Kate Courtney:...

Elisa Schaller is the North American Director of Brand/Product of Outdoor at adidas. She has been with the brand through many iterations - both overseas and domestically - for over a decade. In addition to the brand story, we get a closer look behind-the-scenes of Terrex, her team, and her career. Show Notes: Elisa Schaller: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elisa-schaller/ adidas Terrex: https://www.ad...

TrailCon is returning to Tahoe again this year, and with it, some big updates for the event's second year. First, a major partnership announcement, followed by insight and expectations for the two day event (including Dylan, Aaron and Steve's roles in it). TrailCon: https://trailconference.com/ Consumer Insights Pod with Steve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYc_b60sejc Zero Draft Article: https:...

Steve Holmberg spent nearly two decades helping Nike stay competitive by driving innovation through market research and consumer insights. He believes every discussion for a brand should start with the consumer in mind, and shares not only his insights - but the single phrase that helped set up those conversations to drive the brand forward. He now runs Insight Accelerator, giving more brands and...

Jonathan Retseck founded RXR Sports to work with athletes, explorers and storytellers in outdoor brands. It didn't take long before RXR amassed what is arguably the dream team of athletes under management. Alex Honnold, Jimmy Chin, Rich Roll and many more are part of their stacked roster of talent. But the story goes well beyond the transactional nature of sponsorship - what RXR does to build deep...

Darren Rayner, Founder and Head Of Creative at Magnafire, produces content for some of the biggest brands in the world. His agency has developed incredibly strong performing short form content for brands like Red Bull and Arc'teryx, helping them grow massively on platforms like Instagram and TikTok. In today's episode, we approach the content strategy and production mindset that sets Magnafire apa...

Patrick Crawford has had a legendary run in the outdoor industry - launching Freeskier magazine, followed by one of the original athlete social agencies, Inkwell. During his time leading Inkwell, he worked with the top outdoor athletes in the world - as well as the brands that supported them - to launch massive projects, the Free Solo film among many others on the list. Find out what Patrick has t...

Martina Brimmer founded Swift Industries 17 years ago in the basement of a punk house. Over those years, she held on to a rollercoaster of ups and downs as the business grew, adapted and survived to meet market demand. After the softening of the cycling industry post-pandemic, Martina had to make some big decisions for the survival of the business, and this incredibly transparent conversation is a...

Jeff Pelletier is an established filmmaker, content creator and successful agency owner - among many other things. He sits down with Aaron to compare notes on the YouTube journey and provides insights and actionable advice for other aspiring content creators looking to build a community. Show Notes: Jeff Pelletier: https://www.youtube.com/@JeffPelletier Jeff's Website: https://jeffpelletier.com/ B...

Cassie Abel is the founder and CEO of Wild Rye, a brand that celebrates the duality of athletes with gear for both snow and mountain biking. In this podcast, we dive into the history of the brand as she launched with a co-founder, looked for signals that they were on the right track, and rode the exhausting rollercoaster of manufacturing, marketing and everything in between as the brand experience...

Founder and publisher of Like The Wind magazine, Simon Freeman, joins the podcast to talk about media models and the different approaches that are available to explore for media operators. Show Notes: Like The Wind: https://www.likethewindmagazine.com/ Mario Fraioli: https://themorningshakeout.com/ Surfers Journal: https://www.surfersjournal.com/ Jonathan Levitt Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/wa...

Reflecting on the recent pod with the co-founders of Skratch, Dylan and Aaron take a closer look at their approach to running their own businesses. Leadership, profit versus impact, scaling versus staying small, funding and business models. Maybe most important - what time horizon are we using to make all these decisions - are we truly playing the infinite game? Show Notes: Freetrail: https://www....

Skratch won our award for "Brand Of The Year" in 2024, and the main reason was because we respected their approach to playing the infinite game: making decisions rooted in long term stability. So many brands in their position would angle for acquisition and an exit strategy, but that is not on their radar. The discipline and vision that it takes to stay true to that ethos is evident in this conver...

Dylan and Aaron reconnect to share the different approaches they are taking toward success in the outdoor industry in 2025 - digging into goals, frameworks and vision (and then some). They also riff on the new team launched by Kate Courtney (She Sends Racing) and why it matters a lot more than just the typical factory sponsorship announcement. Show Notes: Kate Courtney: She Sends Racing: https://w...

Allison Lynch has the depth of experience that most marketers could only dream of having. As an early employee at Whoop, she had hands-on involvement in all the levers of marketing (and beyond). Athletes and content ended up becoming a big part of her role, which put her squarely in competition with Second Nature host, Aaron Lutze (who lead content + community at Oura). With both roles in their pa...

It's one thing to build a following around your own social media account, but an entirely different task to do it for a brand. Christian Peper has done both - and not only that, he's launching a bootcamp to help other creators follow in his footsteps. Last month, he shared Dialed Creator with the world, which we think is going to play a big role in reshaping the athlete approach to content creatio...

Corrine Malcolm has created her own path as an athlete, podcaster, livestream host, and coach. She joins the conversation on Second Nature this week on the cusp of the next evolution of her career is about to unfold. 2025 predictions, athlete and brand insights, and plenty more. Show Notes: Corrine Malcolm: https://www.instagram.com/corrinemalcolm/ Paris Gore: https://parisgore.com/ Trail Society:...

Spencer Harkins has been the VP of Brand at Pit Viper since 2017, and in this episode we get into all the stories of where the brand started, their clever strategy for coming up with ideas and campaigns, and how they are serious about taking things less seriously. We highly recommend that you check out this episode on the Second Nature YouTube channel, there are some visuals that you don't want to...

Matt Sims comes from an incredible background of working with athletes and developing sports marketing programs at brands like Lululemon and Fox Racing. Over the past year, he's put everything he's learned into launching a new brand: courier. We dig into the insights and effort that went into putting the right team together, as well as what it took to get the brand launched. Courier socks are all...

We haven't figured out how to spell it yet, but at least we came through with the awards for our favorite brands, product, content and athletes. Dylan and Aaron share their favorites from the year, as well as a look at what's in store for the year ahead. Show Notes: Skratch Labs: https://www.skratchlabs.com/ Hoka: https://www.hoka.com/ Raide Research: https://raideresearch.com/ Garmin Enduro 3: ht...

John Paradine was there on Day One of Red Bull, when the first can was officially sold in the USA. In this podcast, he shares stories about the way Red Bull established themselves in the USA - and the unorthodox ways they went about building the marketing organization (and their approach to ROI). Field Marketing was (and still is) a huge element in Red Bull's marketing mix, and on this podcast we...