Reconstructing Inclusion Podcast

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion! We're not divided by differences. We're separated by distance. Fred Falker joins Amri to unpack the distance paradigm and why most inclusion work has been solving the wrong problem entirely. Fred Falker is President of Falker Consulting Group, Inc. and former Director of Workforce Development for the Saint Louis Zoo. With more than 30 years as a...

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion! Your brain doesn't process exclusion differently from physical pain. Dr. Steve L. Robbins joins Amri to unpack the neuroscience of belonging and why most inclusion work has been measuring the wrong thing. Dr. Steve L. Robbins is a communication scientist, social psychologist, and cognitive neuroscientist who has spent decades studying human beha...

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion! Who's shaping the logic of AI systems — and who gets quietly failed when they work exactly as designed, just not for them? That's the inclusion gap Amri Johnson and Peter Swimm dig into in this conversation. Peter Swimm is the founder and CEO of Toilville and has spent over 25 years in conversational AI, building systems for companies like Walma...

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion! Most inclusion conversations focus on belonging. This episode makes the case that we've been stopping short. Belonging asks: Am I welcome here? Mattering asks: Am I consequential here? You can answer yes to the first and no to the second — and when that happens, something dims inside people that is hard to recover without intentional effort. Amr...

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion! What if DEI was built the same way curb cuts were — designed for the most excluded and better for everyone as a result? In this episode, Amri Johnson sits down with Dr. Jennifer Sarrett, founder of Disruptive Inclusion, to explore why the inclusion field keeps falling short — and what a proactive, evidence-based alternative looks like. Dr. Jenni...

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion! In this solo episode, I break down why DEI didn't collapse because of courtroom battles or political backlash. It collapsed because the field stopped evolving. While we were busy seeking legal cover and worrying about what would hold up in court, something more consequential was happening inside organizations: sense-making was deteriorating, tru...

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion! Designing for the Margins: Why Neurodivergent Thinkers Need More Than Awareness Joy Elizabeth Buckner is an educational consultant who's spent 13 years abroad working across 25+ countries to support neurodivergent learners. With dyslexia, Irlen Syndrome, and ADHD, she brings lived experience to her mission of building belonging for neurodivergen...

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion! This is my last episode for 2025. If I could go back five years, what would I have changed? This solo episode is my honest accounting of where the diversity, equity, and inclusion field went wrong. The past five years transformed DEI. What started as meaningful change became performance art. Organizations treated inclusion as optics management:...

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion! When Empathy Becomes Optional: A Conversation with Maaria Mozaffar When did empathy become something we can turn on and off? When did we start deciding which children deserve protection and which ones don't? These are the uncomfortable questions Maaria Mozaffar forces us to confront. 🔥 Standout Quotes: "If you are watching that and you think it...

Welcome to Season Three of The Reconstructing Inclusion Podcast! In this episode, Amri Johnson argues that D-E-I as symbols must go, not the principles, but the letters themselves that have become hollow ammunition in a culture war serving no one. Fresh from the LEAD 2025 conference in Milan, he'd been seeing traction emerge from the wreckage, but it looks radically different from what came before...

Welcome to Season Three of Reconstructing Inclusion! This season focuses on opening dialogue about who we are rather than what we ascribe to one another—shifting patterns and practices in the diversity and inclusion space with fresh eyes. In our Season Three premiere, host Amri Johnson sits down with Ingrid Hu Dahl, leadership coach, consultant, and author of a powerful memoir about identity, loss...

In this episode, host Amri Johnson delivers a powerful season finale reflecting on Season 2's groundbreaking conversations, Johnson challenges core assumptions about diversity work and introduces controversial perspectives on why focusing on racial differences may be counterproductive to anti-racism goals. Key Discussion Points: - Move from cataloging differences to reducing distance between human...

In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Sheena Mason , author of "The Raceless Antiracist: Why Ending Race is the Future of Antiracism," for a conversation that challenged everything I thought I knew about racial justice. Sheena presents her revolutionary "Togetherness Wayfinder" framework—a practical roadmap beyond traditional antiracist thinking toward what she calls "raceless antiracism." This isn...

In this episode, host Amri Johnson explores why many DEI efforts have failed to deliver sustainable change and offers a principle-centered framework that thrives even in challenging political climates. Key Discussion Points: - Why the "Chicken Little" mentality has weakened DEI's position - The three keys to effective inclusion: accessibility, actionability, and alignment - How anti-fragile organi...

In this episode, Howard Ross draws on four decades of DEI experience to offer wisdom in today's polarized climate. Howard, who brought me into the DEI field years ago, discusses how today's backlash fits into historical patterns and provides strategic guidance for practitioners navigating political headwinds. Key Discussion Points: - The shift from a "bell curve society" to a "dumbbell curve socie...

In this episode, host Amri Johnson challenges us to examine how we put ourselves and others into boxes—especially in the context of identity and inclusion within DEI work. Amri explores the shortcomings of both extreme pro-DEI and anti-DEI positions, revealing how both ends of the spectrum ultimately restrict true inclusion. Key Discussion Points: - Three types of boxes that shape our identities -...

In this episode, Fred Falker challenges everything we think we know about DEI. Using the famous nine-dot puzzle as a metaphor, Fred explains why our current approach to inclusion might be holding us back – and offers a revolutionary new way forward. Key Discussion Points: - The nine-dot puzzle and invisible limitations - Difference vs. Distance paradigm - Why nature doesn't draw lines? - The probl...

Reconstructing Inclusion with Amri B. Johnson Season 2, Episode 6: Moving Beyond the DEI (and Anti-DEI) Bandwagon in 2025 📝 Episode Description: In this episode, Amri explores why traditional DEI approaches are failing organizations and introduces the Emergent Inclusion Framework - a new paradigm for creating sustainable, inclusive cultures. Learn how to move beyond bandwagon solutions and build...

In this explosive episode, former legal compliance expert turned DEI strategist Ashanti Bentil-Dhue drops truth bombs about the uncomfortable reality of DEI practice. She reveals why lived experience isn't enough, challenges the notion of "social justice in the workplace," and explains why the $30 billion DEI industry needs serious reform. Key Discussion Points: - Why 90% of self-taught DEI practi...

Welcome to the Reconstructing Inclusion Podcast ! Today, I’m excited to dive into a timely and challenging topic: navigating the winds of political change while maintaining our commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). As we explore this theme, I’ll share insights on how we can view perceived setbacks as setups for meaningful comebacks. Personal Reflections on Political Dynamics Let me...

In this episode of the Reconstructing Inclusion Podcast, host Amri Johnson interviews Dr. Darryl Stickel, a leading expert on trust. Dr. Stickel discusses how modern relationships have become shallow due to social media, emphasizing the importance of building deeper connections. He explores trust in organizational contexts, highlighting the role of vulnerability in leadership and team dynamics.   ...

Imagine a workplace where every employee, regardless of their differences, is set up to thrive. A place where managers are charged not just with hitting targets, but with creating an environment where even those they clash with can excel. Sound like a fantasy? It's not. This is the reality of what I call an "inclusion system," and it's the key to transforming your organization from a fragile puddl...

In this episode, Amri B. Johnson, host of the Reconstructing Inclusion Podcast, revisits ten insightful questions from his past podcast appearances, offering a comprehensive look at his approach to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI).   Timestamps 01:55 Amri's background and journey into DEI work 07:00 Relationship between DEI and anti-racism  10:00 Approach to deconstructing and reconstructing...

In this episode, host Amri Johnson welcomes Dr. Jonathan Ashong-Lamptey, founder of The Element of Inclusion, to discuss evidence-based inclusion and its importance in creating more effective diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) strategies. Timestamps 06:46 Influences and Inspirations: Personal and Professional 16:12 The Importance of Evidence-Based Decision Making 19:33 The Rhetorical Problem i...

Amri B. Johnson acknowledges the growing criticism of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) efforts, but argues that DEI remains crucial for organizational success in creating truly inclusive cultures. He believes many current strategies treat inclusion as an add-on rather than fundamentally rethinking systems and cultures, often failing to drive deep systemic change. Season two of the Reconstruc...