Real Organic Podcast

#261: Organic Insider founder Max Goldberg unpacks the most urgent threats facing organic integrity today: the explosive growth of hydroponic “organic,”  the quiet industry push to normalize gene-edited GMO 2.0, and the confusion and greenwashing surrounding the word "regenerative." Max also shares his thoughts on pesticide liability shields and the food-as-medicine movement, as well as why organi...

#260: Pesticide risk expert Chuck Benbrook returns for a clear examination of how chemical residues in food affect human health. This conversation responds directly to recent claims made on a popular medical podcast (The Checkup With Dr. Mike - linked below) that downplayed the risks of pesticide exposure and dismissed the benefits of organic food. Essential listening for anyone trying to cut thro...

#259: James Beard Award- winning author Nancy Matsumoto discusses her new book Reaping What She Sows : How Women Are Rebuilding Our Broken Food System. From grass-fed dairy farmers and Indigenous fishers to bakers reviving regional grains, Nancy shares stories of innovation, resilience, and community - and reveals the hidden work required to create short, transparent, local food chains that stand...

#258: What happens when one of today’s most influential market gardeners sits down with one of the founders of modern organic farming? JM Fortier interviews Eliot Coleman - author, farmer, and pioneer of soil-based organic agriculture. Their conversation explores the roots of market gardening, the central role of healthy soil, and why organic farming must remain grounded in ecological systems rath...

#257:  Before the USDA organic seal existed, the movement was held together by trust, community… and the courage to confront fraud when it appeared. Bob Scowcroft, former executive director of CCOF and co-founder of OFRF, tells the inside story of the famous “carrot caper” - a scandal that forced the public, the press, and the state of California to take organic seriously. Bob also recalls the Ala...

#256:  Drawing on decades of soil respiration research, scientist Will Brinton explains why the most important action surrounding carbon sequestration isn’t simply in the soil - it’s the plant canopy that captures CO₂ the moment it’s released. Dr. Brinton returns to our show to discuss the failures of carbon-focused climate programs and a vision for organic farming rooted in diversity, continuous...

#255: Filmmaker Deborah Koons Garcia joins us, 20 years after the release of her influential documentary The Future of Food, to reflect on how the food system has changed - and how it hasn’t. Deborah shares her thoughts about GMOs, corporate control, regulatory capture, the rise of regenerative farming, and why she followed her GMO exposé with Symphony of the Soil, a film celebrating the beauty an...

#254: Food systems journalist and author Tom Philpott joins Dave for a powerful discussion on the legacy of Joan Gussow, the myths driving industrial agriculture, and the political forces shaping what we eat. From nitrate pollution in the Corn Belt to the illusion of land-sparing yields, Philpott brings clarity to some of the most urgent questions facing our food system today. https://realorganicp...

#253: Farmer, researcher, and author Helen Atthowe has spent 40 years building soil ecosystems that feed themselves while offering their own, living biologic controls In this conversation with Dave Chapman, she explains how living pathways - strips of cover crops and mulches between beds and orchard rows  - can replace tillage, fertilizers, and pesticides. Drawing from her experiences with Masanob...

#252: Farmer, educator, and EcoFarm President Leonard Diggs joins Dave Chapman for a wide-ranging conversation about the evolution of organic agriculture, the legacy of EcoFarm, and the urgent need to move from commodity-based to community-based farming. From his formative years at UC Davis in the 1970s to his journey studying natural farming with Masanobu Fukuoka in Japan, Leonard shares a lifeti...

#251: Michael Pollan joins Dave Chapman for a wide-ranging conversation on the state of food, health, and the organic movement. Pollan reflects on his friendship with Joan Gussow, her prophetic warnings about industrial agriculture, and her influence on his landmark books The Omnivore’s Dilemma and In Defense of Food. Together, they discuss the meaning of real food, the reductionism of modern nutr...

#250: Farmer, activist, and Real Organic ally Karen Washington joins Dave Chapman to talk about her decades-long fight for food justice and her friendship with food systems pioneer Joan Gussow Karen traces her journey from growing up in the Bronx projects to co-founding Rise & Root Farm, a women-led, LGBTQ+ and BIPOC cooperative in New York’s Hudson Valley. Together, they discuss how small farms,...

#249: Florida blueberry farmer Hugh Kent of King Grove Organic Farm shares the story of how corporate power and USDA negligence nearly drove his organic farm out of business - and how he saved it through direct marketing. Speaking at the Saving Real Organic conference at Churchtown Dairy, Hugh connects the dots between monopoly economics, antitrust failures, hydroponic loopholes, and the collapse...

#248: Pioneer organic farmer Eliot Coleman returns to the Real Organic Podcast to share the ideas behind his newest book, The Self-Fed Farm and Garden: A Return to the Roots of the Organic Method. In conversation with Real Organic Project co-director Dave Chapman, Eliot explains how farms can thrive without imported manure or compost — using soil-improving crops and long-term green manures to buil...

#247: This week, we celebrate the life and work of Joan Gussow, the visionary nutritionist whose thinking transformed how many understand the connection between soil, food, and health. You'll hear from many food systems activists and thinkers, including Michael Pollan, Barbara Kingsolver, Alice Waters, Karen Washington, Dan Barber and Pam Koch as they share personal memories of Joan’s mentorship a...

#246: In this talk from the Saving Real Organic conference at Churchtown Dairy, Emily Oakley explains why so many small-scale, soil-based farms are dropping USDA certification - and why the time may be right for Real Organic Project to pursue its own standalone label. A founding farmer of our movement and former NOSB member, Emily asks one of the most urgent questions in the organic movement today...

#245: Recorded live at the Saving Real Organic conference at Churchtown Dairy on September 27, 2025, co-directors Linley Dixon and Dave Chapman share a joint message about the future of organic farming and our movement’s next chapter. Linley exposes how USDA inaction has eroded organic integrity - from fraudulent grain imports to hydroponic berries - while Dave reflects on the legacy of pioneers l...

#244: Montana farmer and author Bob Quinn believes the cure for chronic disease begins in the soil. His research comparing ancient and modern wheat varieties has led him to found his own 600 acre institute in the middle of his organic grain farm. Here Bob catches up with Dave to share an update on his White House meeting with Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins and Secretary of Health RFK Jr a...

#243: Celebrated historian of science and author of Merchants of Doubt Naomi Oreskes exposes how powerful corporations distort science to protect profits, by using scientists who seek to promote their personal ideologies. She draws the lines between climate denial, food system disinformation, and the fight to preserve soil-based organic farming. This conversation is a call to defend both science a...

#242: Abby Rockefeller has spent her life pushing back against the toxic legacy of sewage sludge. In this interview, she unpacks how America’s sewer systems pollute water, contaminate farmland, and endanger farmers and eaters alike. From compost toilets to PFAS contamination, Abby makes the case for radically rethinking our waste and a returning to systems that support soil, water, and life. https...

#241: Johanna Davis and Adam Nordell built their farm from scratch, growing vegetables and grains while weaving their community together through food and place. But after more than a decade of farming, they discovered their land, water, and bodies were poisoned by PFAS chemicals -  “forever chemicals” spread decades earlier as sewage sludge billed as fertilizer. Their journey reveals the devastati...

#240: Barbara Kingsolver reflects on her lifelong connection to food, her friendship with Joan Gussow, and the spiritual, cultural, and political meaning of how we eat. She shares why fiction can change hearts, why capitalism has reshaped food culture, and why hope is a responsibility we must practice every day. https://realorganicproject.org/barbara-kingsolver-ode-to-joan-gussow-240 The Real Orga...

#239: California organic farmer and Del Cabo cooperative founder Larry Jacobs returns to discuss why organic farming must remain firmly rooted in soil and not bend to allow hydroponics. Larry’s proven commitment to integrity comes through via his role in a lawsuit against the USDA over the inclusion of hydroponics under the organic seal, as well as his efforts to educate his staff about the issues...

#238: Cameron Molberg of Greener Pastures Chicken shares how he’s building a vertically integrated model for pasture-raised organic chicken  without cutting corners - as is typically done with the majority of usda organic labeled poultry found in chain supermarkets. From animal welfare to USDA loopholes, and feed fraud to school lunch programs, Cameron lays out the challenges and opportunities of...

#237: In this follow-up conversation, Dick Schwartz, founder of Internal Family Systems therapy, speaks with Dave about how IFS applies far beyond the therapy room. Together, they explore the “middle way” in activism - finding courage and clarity without being consumed by rage or fear. From conflicts in the Middle East to economic inequality and corporate power, Schwartz explains how healing our i...