People Who Read People: A Behavior and Psychology Podcast

I talk to former members of the House of Representatives Luke Messer (Republican) and Elizabeth Esty (Democrat). We talk about: political polarization; their experiences being in congress during such a highly polarized period of time; their ideas for reducing toxic polarization, and more.  Learn more about the show and get transcripts at⁠ ⁠behavior-podcast.com⁠⁠.    Learn more about your ad choice...

A talk with Russell Hurlburt, who’s researched inner experience for more than five decades. He's the author of six books and many articles on the topic of inner mental experiences. Topics discussed include: the difficulty of describing inner experience; the ambiguities in the classification of “aphantasia” (reporting no visual qualities in one’s thought processes); the ambiguities in the “inner mo...

This is a talk with Brendan Bartholomew, who’s a professional bus driver in San Francisco. We talk about the role understanding and predicting human behavior can play when driving a city bus. Topics discussed include: the importance of thinking ahead about potential pedestrian/traffic dangers; how bus drivers know who’s waiting for a bus and who’s not; thoughts on handling unruly and/or mentally i...

A talk with David Foster, who writes about polarization and media at knowthesystem.org and is the author of "Moderates of the World Unite!: Reworking the Political Media Complex." Topics discussed include: the optimal approach for reducing toxic political polarization (cultural change vs systemic changes); defining the word 'moderate' and examining some of the negative connotations it has; the dif...

Elizaveta Friesem writes about media and about social power (i.e., the power people exert over other people).  I first interviewed her about media and polarization in 2021 about her book "Media Is Us." Topics we discuss here include: Michel Foucault’s ideas about power (often referenced in liberal academic world); the oppressed/oppressor framework (also often referenced); how simplistic views of s...

A talk with Daniel Whiteson, a professor of physics and astronomy, about free will, with a focus on what the effects in one's life are when one doesn't believe in free will. Topics discussed: Our thoughts on why we think free will is unlikely to exist; psychological and emotional aspects of living without a belief in free will; the anxiety and even anger that some people can have about the idea th...

A talk with journalist Isaac Saul, founder of Tangle News (readtangle.com), which shares takes from across the political spectrum. I think Tangle is doing amazing work. I think the more Americans there are who read Tangle, the less toxically polarized we'll be. Topics we discuss include: aspects of Tangle News that make it depolarizing and anger-reducing; how Isaac conceives of the problem of poli...

A talk with screenwriter/producer Brian Koppelman, known for many TV and film projects, including the poker movie Rounders, the show Billions, and the series Super Pumped: The Battle For Uber. Topics discussed: how he decided to create Rounders; Zach's writing about unintentional poker tells/behaviors he spotted in Rounders; the allure of reading people's behavior; the difficulty of reading behavi...

A talk with professional poker player Dara O’Kearney about poker tells (aka, physical and verbal behaviors in poker). Dara is the co-host of the popular poker podcast The Chip Race and the author of several books, including GTO Poker Simplified. We talk about: the importance of poker tells compared to strategy; how Dara’s views on tells have changed over time; some ways poker players can get info...

A talk with David Zulawski from 2018. Zulawksi is an expert in interrogation and interview techniques and the cofounder of Wicklander Zulawski and Associates. Topics discussed include: Why is the non-confrontational, rapport-focused technique he recommends the best one? Why is it important to downplay the significance of a crime? Why is it important to try to prevent someone from denying the crime...

A talk with professional poker player Yakov Hirsch about the well known high-stakes poker situation where amateur Robbi Jade Lew was accused of cheating by professional player Garrett Adelstein. We give our takes on the hand, and the overall situation, and we talk about Robbi's possible motivations and thought processes during this hand, and about what her behavior might indicate about her thinkin...

A talk about trying to understand Trump's anger at the American media, Republicans' anger at the media, and how this relates to toxic polarization in America. This is from a talk I had with Yakov Hirsch in late November 2023. Other topics discussed include: Trump-Russia media coverage; Americans' polarized views of Trump; the importance of trying to understand even those people we perceive as dang...

A second talk with Yakov Hirsch, who writes about the Middle East conflict and about "Hasbara culture": what he sees as the tendency of some Israel-defending people to be overly antagonistic and us-vs-them in their thinking (for example, unfairly framing criticism of Israel as "antisemitic"). If you haven't heard the first talk, I recommend that one. This talk is more general, regarding the nature...

A talk with Kevin Arceneaux, whose research found that a surprising number of people (around 40%) either agreed with or did not disagree with statements like “When I think about our political and social institutions, I cannot help thinking 'just let them all burn'?” In their paper, they called this a "need for chaos." We talk about what the study entailed, what they found, and what the factors mig...

A talk with Jon Michael Hoefling, a sports analyst, about reading behavioral tells and indicators in football, baseball, tennis, and other sports. We focus on a 2021 story that quarterback Ben Roethlisberger had a tell: how he positioned his foot before a play was a strong indicator of whether he'd run or pass. We also talk about reading tells and predicting actions in baseball, tennis, and other...

A talk with Scott Stossel, author of "My Age of Anxiety: Fear, Hope, Dread, and the Search for Peace of Mind." Scott is also national editor of The Atlantic. Scott's book is a history of the condition and treatment of anxiety, and also a personal history in which Scott talks honestly about his struggles with debilitating anxiety. I talk to Scott about what he's learned in his research and personal...

I talk with psychologist Christopher Moyer about electrodermal activity (EDA), also known as galvanic skin response (GSR), which is what lie detectors measure. Topics discussed include: What are spikes in electrodermal activity actually telling us? We talk about its use in lie detectors. We talk about lowerings in skin conductance and what that indicates. We talk about the nature of stress; and ho...

Animal behavior researcher Daniel Mills talks about various aspects of the human-pet relationship, with a focus on his research. Topics include: dogs' abilities to read human emotions and how they do that; the effects of pets on our mental health; animals' ability to perceive images on a TV screen; the differences between the human and animal mind; pets' abilities to sense their owners arriving ho...

Joel Berman is a practitioner of Compassionate Listening (compassionatelistening.org). Joel has travelled to the Middle East and talked with Israelis and Palestinians about their experiences and grievances. Topics discussed: Joel's experiences in the Middle East; what the Compassionate Listening methodology entails; the bravery required for conflict resolution work; and both of our experiences bei...

A talk with two people with door-to-door sales experience. We talk about the tricks and strategies they used to close sales, and the psychological factors in why those strategies work. Topics discussed: verbal and physical sales scripts some companies use, and why they work; the use of ambiguous language in deception; the power of personal anecdotes in gaining rapport; the importance of getting a...

Vanessa Otero is the creator of a popular and well respected media bias chart that ranks the bias of many news outlets, and she's the founder of Ad Fontes Media. Topics discussed include: the process her team uses to determine bias; the difficulties of determining what is "left" and "right" in a polarized and fast-changing political landscape; recognizing that everyone is biased and that the best...

A talk with Yakov Hirsch, who thinks that some Jewish people have exaggerated ideas about the amount of antisemitism in the world, and overly pessimistic ideas about the nature of antisemitism. This can make some Jewish people see disagreement, criticism, and conflict too often through the lens of antisemitism. Hirsch ties this into the Israel/Palestine conflict, and also relates this to a long-ru...

Maria Konnikova is the best-selling author of the books The Biggest Bluff, The Confidence Game, and Mastermind: How To Think Like Sherlock Holmes. Topics discussed include: the human desire for certainty and story/narrative, and our discomfort with ambiguity and uncertainty; how she decided to get into poker and write The Biggest Bluff; why she finds poker such an interesting game; how one can pur...

A talk with orchestra conductor Ming Luke (mingluke.com). Topics discussed include: what a conductor's body language and gestures can communicate to the orchestra; how small differences in gestures can sometimes result in significant musical differences; the difference in conducting styles that can exist between conductors; the role conductors play and the benefits they bring; the leadership and m...

This episode is about "behavior bullshit." There are many self-proclaimed behavior experts spreading bad, misleading, and irresponsible concepts about human behavior, and some of these people are quite popular. This episode focuses on Jack Brown, one of the more egregious offenders amongst behavior bullshitters. Other topics discussed include: eye-quadrant behavior analysis (for example, someone l...