Simon Sapper, Martin Smith
Organising For A Change - the podcast for union builders
We’re fed-up, frustrated and impatient. And you should be too. Unleashed from obligations to employers. Unfiltered by gobbledegook. Uncompromised in what we say. We ask the vital questions that go to the heart of the union movement. We have 80 years of combined union building experience and the gloves are off: No holds barred, nothing left unsaid. Thanks to our supporters: Thompsons, The General Federation of Trade Unions, Pellacraft, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Contact us at organising@makes-you-think.com. Organising For A Change? Why on earth not!
Author
Simon Sapper, Martin Smith
Category
Podcast website
Latest episode
Jun 15, 2026
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Episodes
25 Surge pricing and dynamic wages - a warning 15.06.2026 38:38
In this episode, Simon and Martin chat with James Farrer –an expert in the impact of dynamic (or surge) pricing on wages. In a must-hear conversation, reference is made to a number of live or recent-past court cases and recent research papers. Listeners may want to check out some or all of the following: The TUC report on dynamic pay, based on testimonyfrom a number of Uber drivers, is here . T...
24 Union cultures and union building feat. Becky Wright 03.05.2026 33:16
In this episode Simon and Martin chat with Unions 21 Executive Director Becky Wright about some ground breaking work on union culture, and how this ties in with union building. Spoiler alert – sometimes it helps, at others in obstructs. But the inter-relationship between culture, strategy, and resources is still little-understood, little-studied and little-exposed. Hear what is being done to cha...
23 Building social change feat. Jane Holgate, John Page 20.04.2026 41:04
In this episode, Simon and Martin chat with the authors ofChangemakers – Radical Strategies for Social Movement Organising, Jane Holgate and John Page, who both have long and distinguished involvement in the theory and practice of organising. At the heart of the debate is how to operate in acomplex and conflicting environment of union cultures, legislative frameworks and employer obfuscation – and...
22 How to be "aggresively hopeful" feat. Dave Pike 19.12.2025 32:10
In this episode we chat with Dave Pike, the TUC’s RegionalSecretary for the North East, Yorkshire and Humberside. Dave walks us through an ambitious plan to boost the profile and effectiveness of union engagement in a politically diverse landscape, and how his own experiences organising workers in hospitality, catering and education make him “aggressively hopeful” for the future. We wish all our...
21 No Sweat and union building feat. Jay Kerr 28.11.2025 30:24
Our special guest for this episode is No Sweat convenor JayKerr. He reminds us that when NS set upshop nearly 30 years ago, “sweatshop” was a term little understood. Changing perceptions and understanding is just one of the many achievements of Jay and his colleagues. Our discussion dives deep into the politics and practicalities fo consumer boycotts, how to give meaning and life to internation...
Episode 20: Countering divisive workplace narratives 31.10.2025 34:46
Welcome to the fourth series of O4AC. We start with the most pressing of issues: How to counter the type of divisive, destructive narratives in the workplace, promoted by Reform amongst others. We discuss the practical steps that can and must be taken with Hope Not Hate Trade Union Liaison Officer Matt Collins, and get to grips with the invaluable “ Five Tribes ” analysis of Reform supporters. ...
Episode 19: Union building for pharmacists: The PDAU story 11.04.2025 32:22
This episode features a story of union building against the odds – disparate workers, often isolated from each other,a “sweetheart” union and employer hostility. For Paul Day and his colleagues in the Pharmacists Defence Association Union(PDAU), the challenge in organising the pharmacists in Boots plc was significant. We discuss with Paul the process of removing the in-houseunion sand then engag...
Episode 18 Demystifying AI feat. Adam Cantwell- Corn 28.03.2025 33:10
In this episode, we eyeball AI. It’s time to demystify what Artificial intelligence actually is and get to grips with the keyunion-building issues associated with this so-called “5th Industrial Revolution” Our discussion is made credible with the help of our guestand AI expert, Adam Cantwell-Corn. And Adam’s starting point is that “ we need to not exceptionalise AI….it’s a pay and conditions is...
Episode 17 - Union building in hostile environments feat. Dave Smith 14.03.2025 38:14
The blacklisting scandal was one of the most egregious actsof anti-unionism of the last 50 years. One of the founder members of the Blacklist Support Group is Dave Smithwho joins us in this episode. Dave shares his assessment of the campaign against union building in the construction industry: The motivation and organisation of anti-union employersand how union organisers had to work clandestine...
Episode 16 - Union building in social care 28.02.2025 29:20
In this episode, we sit down with Kelly Andrews to talk about union building in the social care sector. Kelly takes us on her journey from being a lay rep in the now discredited and bust Southern Cross care providers, to leading the GMB union’s work in the sector as a whole. It’s a helluva ride. In what is a vital master class for union builders , Kellydescribes · how fragile recognition a...
Episode 15 - Union Building in a platform economy 14.02.2025 30:24
Martin and Simon are joined by Mick Rix to get behind the headlines of successful organising campaigns in, for example, Deliveroo to look at what tactics are needed to make such work successful - and what success itself looks like. Plus a quick guide to the Labor Radio Podcast Network , of which 04AC is a proud member. We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons , the leading trade union and ...
Episode 14 Big Bargaining 31.01.2025 24:02
In this episode we look at the idea of so-called “big bargaining,” and the way that fits into an overall organizing strategy. We’ve talked in previous episodes about building unity and the five core principles that union builders, we believe, should adopt to build that unity in workplaces. This goes into more detail about how you do that, by exploiting the bargaining agenda. Our starting point i...
Episode 13 Targeting 17.01.2025 26:24
The first episode in the third series of the Organising For A Change podcast is preoccupied with targeting – or in other words a model of strategic choice for union builders. Because two things seem to be universally true; First, activity is frequently measured on process ( how many leaflets handed out, how many social media hits ), rather than outcome ( how many members signed up ). And second,...
Episode 12 - Campaigning and union building 06.12.2024 19:14
Campaigning is in our blood – isn’t it? The answer must surely be Yes, but do we always campaigning for the things that we really truly want and need? So, if you have lost sight of your campaign objectives, are bedazzled by spurious metrics, listen to this Organising For A Change podcast and feel better. We don’t have the answers, but we know the right questions to ask yourself to make sure you...
Episode 11 Union building in the NHS feat. Louise Chinnery 22.11.2024 30:33
£104 million in recovered back pay, £41 million in members’ pay per year going forward, 5000 new members recruited and 164 days of Industrial action with employers who refused to engage. That’s the output, so far, for Unison’s campaign to recruit and organise Healthcare Assistants in the NHS. National officer Louise Chinnery tells how it was done and what’s been learned, and why she describes thi...
Episode 10 building unity 08.11.2024 28:08
“Employers will often seek to divide people at work…by sewing doubt and fear. We need to replace that with anger, hope and self-confidence.” This is the first of 5 principles of building unity, joined by a focus on workplace issues, building solidarity between groups in the same workplace, using bargaiing as a means of building and, crucially, making sure that structures and decision-making are...
Episode 9 - Union building in schools 25.10.2024 26:01
We are joined for this episode by Avril Chambers, the driving force behind one of the GMB union's biggest union building successes - organising school support staff. Avril shares the background to identifying and then union building amongst a new workforce of several hundred thousand. Those who say "it can't be done", "it costs too much", "it will never work" need to pay particular attention. The...
Episode 8 - Leading change 11.10.2024 30:13
Organisationstend to do what they were designed to do, And unions were designed quite a long time ago in some cases. And what they need to do and what they actually do has kind of diverged. Unfortunately, there's no theory of change a union can take off the shelf and say, right, if we do that, that'll work. You have to start in your own organisation. Easy to say, more difficult to do - Simon and M...
Episode 7 How and Why people join unions 27.09.2024 29:10
Welcome to Series 2. In this episode, we're going to talk about how and why people join unions, and it’s not just because it's obviously the right thing to do. Over the last 30 years we can probably say we know a lot more than people might think about the dynamics about how and why people join unions. While the power of data is growing and is phenomenal in terms of helping us understan...
Episode 6 - Banking success 13.09.2024 30:05
In this episode, we look at what happens when despite a great organising campaign – one where you recruit lots of people, and you make a lot of noise, and you really gain traction - and then you reach a certain point, and then enter the CAC process for formal statutory recognition, or something else happens, which means you hit a sort of ceiling, and you stop. What then happens to the energy? What...
Episode 5 - Silos 30.08.2024 24:45
Silos are a big problem for all organisations but unions in particular. High-trust and dynamic activity risks being undermined by suspicion, and dysfunctional priority-setting. Martin and Simon explore the causes and characteristics of silos and what can be done to dismantle these barriers to effective union building, and to stop them developing to start with. We’re grateful to have the support of...
Episode 4 Disaggregation 16.08.2024 26:12
National pay bargaining is in decline and doesn't always work as intended. In the episode we argue that we should disaggregate the one-size fits-all approach and encourage and empower more local union activity - a race to the top if you will. But what if local structures can’t or don’t support such a model? What might be the unintended consequences of accelerating the deterioration of national...
Episode 3: Leadership 02.08.2024 30:08
In the new episode of Organising For A Change, we look at Leadership in the context of our unions. We discuss how and why notions of leadership in the labour movement have become constrained within very tight parameters, and think about Machiavelli’s universal truth that what you need to do to achieve leadership status is often very different to what you have to do to preserve it. We also look...
A 4 Day Working Week and Universal Basic Income 19.07.2024 26:08
As union builders prioritise holding Labours feet to the fire over their existing commitments to 33 new workers’ rights, its important that we make the government understand we will always want more and UBI/4DW pilots are also on our agenda. Always have a claim on the table! The notion of a UK standard four day working week has gained fresh impetus with the election of a new government. A second...
Episode 1: Labour 05.07.2024 29:30
In this episode Simon and Martin look back to 1997 and argue that unions were too much in awe of the Labour landslide of that year, and failed to reap the best set of outcomes from a relatively benign political environment, despite many notable advances. Now, unions are growing in membership and strength and relevance for the first time in decades. With a new government getting their feet under th...
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