On a Human Basis with Joe Badman

What if the obsession with tracking KPIs is actually preventing public services from delivering real outcomes? In this episode, Joe sits down with Toby Lowe, a leading academic and steward of the Human Learning Systems movement. Toby explains why the traditional model of setting targets and performance managing for outcomes is fundamentally broken, and how a Human Learning Systems approach can res...

What if we organised an entire council around building social connection? In this episode, Joe sits down with Tony Clements, Chief Executive of Ealing Council. Tony explains why he's placed social connection at the heart of the council's purpose, and how a Connected Communities approach is reshaping everything from children's services to emergency management. Drawing on the evidence that lonelines...

What happens when a consultant surgeon embeds agile ways of working into the messy reality of an NHS operating theatre? In this episode, Joe sits down with Rob McAdam, a Consultant Upper GI and Bariatric Surgeon who also happens to be a qualified Scrum Master. Rob is a rare example of a practitioner who hasn't just read the theory - he has spent years embedding agile ways of working into the heart...

Is your local authority missing its "hidden cohort" for free school meals? In this episode, Joe sits down with Myles Bremner (Bremner & Co.) who has spent over a decade at the heart of school food policy. They confront the "crazy bureaucracy" standing between children and free school meals, and share how working with teams in Devon and Tower Hamlets has already put £12 million in pupil premium...

Can you actually lead a complex system if you never leave the boardroom? In this episode, Joe sits down with Geeta Subramaniam-Mooney, Director for Environment and Climate Change at Hackney Council. Geeta is local government through and through. With more than 25 years in the public sector, she has an eclectic mix of experience, areas she has delivered within and been responsible. From directly wo...

What happens when you stop being "the boss" and start treating your team like they actually matter? In this episode, Joe sits down with Helen Sanderson to discuss the radical experiment of Wellbeing Teams. Helen walked away from a traditional CEO role to prove that "Self-Management" isn't just a buzzword, it’s a way to save lives. By ditching CVs for "Heart," writing "Scare Away Letters" to find t...

Can love actually be a legitimate—and measurable—policy goal for public services? In this episode, Joe sits down with Carly Glover, founder and former CEO of Jersey Cares, to explore the profound impact of love, advocacy, and human connection within the care system. Drawing from her transformative work in Jersey and Scotland, Carly shares how shifting from a transactional "Victorian model" to a re...

How do we make sure the people most in need don't keep falling through the cracks? In this episode, Joe sits down with Ron Charlton, Data and Information Lead at Changing Futures Northumbria. Ron explains why transactional, target-driven public services fail people with multiple disadvantages, and how a relational, human-centred approach can transform outcomes while reducing crisis demand. Drawing...

Is your transformation team just a PMO function in disguise? In this episode, Joe sits down with Ayesha Hakim Rahman to discuss her 10-year journey from the voluntary sector to leading transformation across London boroughs like Tower Hamlets and Bexley. Ayesha challenges the status quo, arguing that transformation is far more than just PMO or governance - it is about curiosity, impact, and challen...

Can we design services that are genuinely relation, or are we just making bureaucracy slightly more efficient? In this episode, Joe sits down with Virginie Clarke, a service design lead working at the heart of local government to make services more human by putting people and relationships first. What you’ll learn: How Virginie’s background in performance and theatre helped shape her approach to s...

Why does public service reform usually fail, and what does it take to actually do it right? In this episode, Joe sits down with Mark Smith, Visiting Professor of Public Service Innovation, former Director of Public Service Reform at Gateshead Council, and one of the UK’s most experienced thinkers and doers in relational public services. It’s two hours long. And yes, we know - your calendar’s alrea...

How can we balance the need for structure with the flexibility required for human connection? In this episode, Joe sits down with Meilys Heulfryn, a leader driving change in social care and health by focusing on relationships over rigid systems. What you’ll learn: Why understanding people’s real experiences is the key to effective service design. How relational approaches help move beyond transact...

What does 40 years at the heart of public service teach you about truly sustaining change? In this episode, Joe sits down with Tracy McKim, Head of People, Policy and Transformation at Newport City Council, reflecting on 40 years of public service and the power of relational approaches to service design. What you’ll learn: Why relationships are at the heart of sustainable change. How starting smal...

What happens when you stop treating residents as "customers" and start treating them like partners? In this episode, Joe sits down with Rob Comber, Head of Change and Transformation at Ealing Council. Rob discusses his journey in local government, exploring innovative approaches to tackling complex social challenges by prioritising relational service design and building genuine connections. What y...

How do you deliver relational services within a rigid corporate hierarchy? In this episode, Joe sits down with Andrew Rostom, Head of Change (Corporate) at Haringey Council, where he shares his 20 year journey as a pioneer of public service transformation. Andrew opens up about the challenges and rewards of creating relational services that truly respond to community needs. He discusses innovative...

What does it take to actually deliver real impact in local government? In this episode, Joe sits down with Tom Alexander, formerly Head of Change for People Services at Haringey Council, where they dive deep into the challenges and opportunities of driving meaningful change in the public sector. From navigating complex societal problems to the importance of ethical decision-making and genuine comm...