New Kinship

Jon-Michael Shelley, a youth pastor in Atlanta, joins David and TJ to share about his journey as a Side B Christian from a Southern Baptist upbringing into the Anglican tradition. He discussed how liturgy, community, and pastoral care shaped his healing and vocation, and how he has come to understand sexuality as an integrated part of faithful discipleship and ministry. Jon-Michael also reflected...

What's the big deal about celibate partnerships?! Pieter Valk wrote an article in 2023 with a significant critique on celibate partnerships, but in 2026 he made significant revisions with an expanded imagination for the possibility and goodness that these kinds of relationships can play for Christians who are looking to live chaste lives within relationships of belonging and mutual care. If you ar...

How do the comparisons we use for queer sexuality shape the way we think, believe, and respond to one another? TJ and podcast manager Elena explore—with new and previous guests—some metaphors Christians use to understand “being gay.” We talked strengths and limitations of each metaphor and how it can impact the lives of LGBTQ+ people. Take a listen, and then join the conversation on Substack! Note...

David and TJ talked with Akwasi in Ghana about growing up Pentecostal while wrestling with same-sex attraction (SSA). Akwasi shares candidly about the cultural and church pressures surrounding sexuality and marriage in Ghana, and his commitment to pursuing holiness and discipleship even as his attractions remain. He also reflects on the challenges SSA Christians face in his context and his hope to...

Following up on our earlier conversations, we engage the Side B project. Yes, project. Side B is often thought of as a community of queer/SSA Christians committed to the traditional, Christian sexual ethic. But the Side B project is much bigger than just being honest about not being straight and being steadfast in our theological ethics. We review and riff of Grant Hartley’s article on this very t...

We are glad to have Mwendia Steve Kiengu back on the podcast to hear about his ministry in Kenya and across Africa. Found is a ministry to build a Christ-centered community walking alongside believers experiencing same-sex orientation and gender dysphoria, guiding them toward truth, love, and belonging. This is the only Side B ministry in the entire continent of Africa (Side B integrates experienc...

Have you heard of Revoice? If not, then maybe that’s because you’ve been living in the woods… or in the closet. Come tune in and hear an update on what’s going on at the Revoice Conference and beyond from Revoice's founder and President, Nate Collins. TJ, Tyler, and David get to hear from Nate about the changes in the ministry over the years, including the change in the scope of the ministry as it...

The whole gang talked with Erin Moniz—Baylor University chaplain, Anglican deacon, and author of the excellent book Knowing and Being Known —about developing a Christian theology of intimacy. Erin’s approach to intimacy offers as a valuable critique for our culture’s obsession with romance and sex. Even more importantly, she offers a positive theological vision, exploring how friendships, family,...

In light of the Colorado Supreme Court case Charles v. Salazar and prior conversation with Julia Sadusky and other conversations with Side X guests, we dig into Conversion Therapy (also called Reparative or Reintegrative Therapy), particularly how it intersects notions around the fluidity of sexuality. Reports on sexual fluidity opens new questions to the ethics of conversation therapies, and mayb...

Our friend Neth is a father, grandfather, and licensed counselor—and at the first Revoice conference in 2018, he came out to himself as gay, at the age of 54. In this episode, Neth reflected on growing up in an abusive Christian home and how this experience shaped decades of his life. Speaking both personally and professionally, he talked with us about mixed-orientation marriages, why naming yours...

Logan Morrison is a trans man who leads Kaleidoscope’s trans outreach ministry in New York City. Logan talked with TJ and Tyler about coming out as trans and losing a job over it, and how Christian gospel and Christian communities had positive and negative impacts on him and many others. Tune in also for conversations about: how we distinguish experiences of gender vs. sexuality (”are you trans, o...

Tyler Parker, David Frank, and TJ introduce a new monthly-ish podcast format called the Kinship Lab , created to reflect on recent interviews/events or other emerging ideas. Comment below on any questions or topics you’d like to see in the future. In this first Kinship Lab, they reflect on a recent two-day summit of a handful of Side B leaders, emphasizing growing capacity for fruitful conversatio...

Eve Tushnet (writer and cofounder of Building Catholic Futures) joined Tyler, TJ, and David to talk about forms of kinship beyond marriage—specifically vows of friendship or lifelong celibate partnership. Eve reflects on her own journey to Catholicism, to serving the church as a gay Christian, and to discerning a lifelong partnership herself. ★ About Our Guest Eve Tushnet is the author of two awar...

In Part 2 of our conversation, Odessa offers a deeply reflective exploration of gender through philosophical, theological, and lived lenses. From mushrooms to Aristotle to Christian eschatology, Odessa invites each of us into a nuanced dialogue about embodiment, faithfulness, and what holiness and hospitality might look like amid contemporary debates about gender. Part 1 can be found here: https:/...

In this episode, Odessa—a transgender woman and former Anglican priest—shares her journey of transition alongside a deep wrestling with faith, vocation, and identity. She reflects on growing up with alienation and shame, the freedom she’s found in embracing her femininity, and the costs of that journey for her family, church, and relationships. Odessa also explores the intersections of gender, neu...

David Frank and TJ talked with historian Dr. Dan Hummel about why many Evangelical Christians support the modern state of Israel—and its implications for kinship between Christians and Jews. Dan traces the theological roots of Christian Zionism, the rise of dispensational theology, and some political and social effects we see today. We also covered how Christians have related to Jewish communities...

Taka Chan has been a queer, celibate Christian in campus ministry long enough to have seen both deep friendships and losses. He joined David and TJ to share stories of friends, pastors, and communities who have walked with him—and those who haven’t. We hope you’re encouraged by his reflections on God’s provision, even in the midst of uncertainty about what comes next. Note: This episode uses the t...

Sometimes--as in the case of Rev. Zach from Ep. 73 --we record an episode with folks and then, before we can release it, life takes interesting turns. Since talking to us 6 months ago, Zach is in the process of leaving the Episcopal denomination in the US and considering his ministerial call in a new way. He stopped by (metaphorically) to update us and share some more thoughts. We’re grateful for...

Reverend Zach joins TJ and David to share his unexpected journey from being in a same-sex marriage (Side A) to embracing a historic Christian sexual ethic (Side B). Raised Roman Catholic and shaped by a call to ministry, Zach talked about the questions that surfaced during seminary, how getting married changed his understanding of marriage, his longing for friendship, and the theologians and write...

Dear listeners, join me on a special story with my neighbor Martina. She has fled to the US as an asylum-seeker in fear of her life from persecution and murderous extortion. Since then, she’s become not only a friend, but a partner in neighborhood hospitality and church community! Her ability to stay here is literally a matter of life and death, so some friends and I raised funds to help cover her...

Dr. Julia Sadusky, a Catholic and licensed psychologist from Colorado, joins David and TJ to unpack the Chiles vs. Salazar Supreme Court case and what’s behind the debates around conversion therapy. Julia talks about how she brings together her faith and psychology, and why—as a conservative Christian—she chose to support Colorado’s ban on “conversion therapy” for minors, through an amicus brief....

What is the nature of sin and desire? At a theological level? We’re diving in with Joel Carini (from The Natural Theologian ) for a theological conversation about desire, sin, attraction, and the resources that the reformed theological tradition has (or doesn’t have) for same-sex-attracted, celibate Christians. Also includes: comparisons to psychology vs. biblical counseling, and how Harry Potter...

David, Lakshmi, and Erin dig into the intersection of wealth, faith, and community, particularly from the standpoint of middle-class Christians. Sparked by Lakshmi’s seminary research on Christian engagement with wealth accumulation in a neoliberal capitalist system, we explored theological and practical approaches to wealth: What does it mean to have or accumulate wealth? What are the impacts of...

“ In our society is a big assumption that what it means to be truly, fully human is to not need other people… So you face a choice: is it fundamentally a bad thing to be a person ? Or, is our account of a person as ‘someone who’s independent and autonomous’ fundamentally untrue? And [if so] we have to make room for our genuine neediness in our account of what it means to be human and what we owe t...

“Paul [in 1st Corinthians] really does seem to think that what I do with my body, Christ has done with his body. Like, when I use my body to abuse other people, I have taken Christ's body and used it to abuse people, which for a Christian is the maximum sacrilege that you could do. But when I do something loving or caring or giving… I have taken Jesus' body and blessed others with it.” So. You hea...