MAKING UX WORK: The Joe Natoli Podcast

Outside of the one and only Vivianne Castillo, nobody tells you how much emotional labor this job involves. In this episode, Joe talks about the invisible work designers do every day — managing fear, insecurity, resistance, and ego — and how easily and quickly that turns into burnout. You’ll learn how to recognize emotional subtext without absorbing it, how to listen without fixing and how to prot...

Having UX in your title doesn’t guarantee trust.  Nor, for that matter, does Senior, Lead, Manager, Director, VP or Chief Executive . In this episode, Joe breaks down why UXers and product designers often struggle to be taken seriously — and what actually does build credibility in messy, political environments. You’ll learn how trust is built through consistency, clarity, and reliability — not bri...

There’s a moment in every career when it hits: No one is coming to fix this for you. In this episode, Joe talks about agency — what it really means, why helplessness fuels burnout — and how reclaiming control starts with small, deliberate actions. Now, this isn’t just another tough-love rant, mind you. It’s a reminder that your power doesn’t come from being fearless — it comes from feeling that fe...

You don’t need a mandate to do the right thing. In this episode, Joe challenges the idea that authority has to come before action. He explains how waiting to be “allowed” is often what keeps people stuck — and how small, uninvited acts of improvement build credibility over time. This is about initiative without recklessness. Leadership without a title. And stopping the lie that you’re powerless de...

Pain is unavoidable. Suffering is optional. In this episode, Joe talks about what happens when we stop fighting reality — at work and in life — and start dealing with what actually is , instead of what we wish things were. You’ll hear why negativity is a habit, why waiting for perfect conditions is a trap, and how accepting imperfection is the first step toward real progress. Now don't get it...

That panic you feel before speaking up? Or presenting your ideas? It’s not about your skills. It's not about how well-rehearsed you are. And it is absolutely not about your "ability" to speak publicly. In this episode, Joe breaks down why fear shows up most intensely in public moments — meetings, presentations, moments where you’re seen — and what you're actually doubting when...

There’s more than one way to push back — and not all of them look like confrontation. In this episode, Joe talks about different styles of influence, why “ going along to get along” quietly erodes confidence and how asking better questions can shift power. He builds on the idea that influence doesn’t require force.  You’ll hear how pulling people forward — instead of pushing back — can lower resis...

You can’t reason people out of fear. In this episode, Joe explains why resistance at work is rarely about logic or data — and almost always about anxiety, identity, and self-protection. You’ll learn how to recognize fear when it shows up as pushback, how to respond without escalating conflict and why emotional intelligence is just as important as technical skill if you want your work to survive. T...

What if nothing going wrong… is actually possible? In this episode, Joe explores how fear shows up as rigidity — over-planning, clinging to certainty, and resisting anything that disrupts the script. Through stories from consulting, music, and real-world UX work, he makes the case for flexibility, presence and embracing uncertainty as a strength — not a failure. This episode is about letting go of...

Confidence isn’t something you either have or don’t. It’s something you build — deliberately, repeatedly, and imperfectly. In this episode, Joe breaks down why practice matters more than insight, why habits shape your emotional reactions, and how small, daily rituals can rewire the way you respond to stress, fear, and self-doubt. This isn’t about quick fixes or positive thinking. It’s about buildi...

A lot of career discomfort comes from trying to lead, present, or speak in a way that isn’t actually you. In this episode, Joe talks about why borrowed scripts, leadership clichés, and “how you’re supposed to do it” advice often only make things worse. You’ll learn why authenticity reduces anxiety, how small moments of comfort are proof you’re capable and why judging your work by other people’s re...

If authority figures still trigger old emotional responses for you, you’re not alone. In this episode, Joe explores why feedback from bosses can feel so personal — and how early conditioning often shapes the way we react to power, criticism, and expectations at work. You’ll hear why being challenged doesn’t mean you’re failing, how to separate your worth from other people’s reactions and what it r...

Fear thrives in ambiguity. In this episode, Joe digs into why hesitation, overthinking, and self-doubt get worse the longer you sit with them — and why asking for clarity immediately is one of the most powerful tools you have. You’ll hear practical ways to interrupt fear before it snowballs, how to ground yourself physically in tense moments, and why prioritizing your own calm is NOT selfish — it’...

When fear hits, most people push harder. That instinct — to defend, explain, prove, or fight — is exactly what makes things worse . In this episode, Joe shares a critical life lesson he learned from his father that applies directly to moments of panic at work, especially when conflict, resistance, or pressure show up unexpectedly. You’ll learn why the first move isn’t steering or reacting; it’s re...

Impostor syndrome doesn’t come from nowhere — and it’s rarely about what just happened. In this episode, Joe breaks down why your strongest self-doubt reactions often have very little to do with the moment you’re in — and everything to do with patterns formed long before your career even started. You’ll learn how to recognize when fear is being triggered by the past, how to interrupt the panic spi...

In both my previous experience working with her company as a consultant and this conversation, it becomes very clear very fast that Tanya Netayavichitr is someone who lifts every person she comes in contact with to greater heights. As you'll hear for yourself in the way she describes her experiences, it's never about her — it's about the people she's working with, guiding and a...

My guest for Episode 18 of Making UX Work is Will Sykora , who’s been working in design for over a decade, from a start in traditional graphic design to immersing himself in digital and web experiences. He’s worked in a multitude of industries, including hospitality, financial services, and government. He’s also worked independently as a freelance consultant, and launched his own startup along the...

For this first episode of Season 3, I'm breaking my "no rock stars" rule. Because although he would never describe or consider himself as such, Nick Finck is a rock star — in the absolute best sense of the word. For over 25 years, Nick has helped businesses build, grow, train, and support UX teams so they can focus on creating great products. And the core reason he's been so su...

My guest Rich Harrison has 15 years of design leadership experience, partnering with over 50 organizations . He has served as a UX lead, team leader, and senior designer for higher education, Fortune 500 companies, government, nonprofits, startups, and small businesses. He's spent the last 5 years supporting UXPA Minnesota as a board member and UX mentor and serves on the advisory board for t...

Helen Arvanotopoulis describes herself as a Design Thinking Preacher, UX Evangelist and Service Design Advocate. She is currently Head of UX for the Centre of Excellence (CoE) for Aegon NV, working across Europe, Asia and America helping businesses and teams build and grow their capabilities and transform their organisations. Her passion and belief in collaboration and a multi-disciplinary approac...

Russ Troester is still very new to UX, but he's definitely in the right place because, in his own words, he has a passion for “ helping to make things suck less .” While he especially enjoys the research-related portions of the UX design process, Russ has had a very wide-ranging career across multiple industries. But the one constant, and the thing that I really believe led him to UX is his v...

My guest today is Hida Behzadi . While she is a graphic designer by trade, she’s also worked as a creative director, a UX strategist, a design lecturer, and continues to work as an art instructor.  In addition to her design acumen, Hida is an accomplished fine artist whose beautiful work possesses remarkable emotional and visual depth. And as I think you’ll hear over the course of our 80-minute co...

My guest today is Rajeev Subramanian , who describes himself as the "poster child" for continuous career evolution, and after talking to him I agree with that description.  From gigs in sales, marketing, software development, entrepreneurship ventures and of course, design, one thing has remained common over his last 16 years: an unrelenting appetite to understand human behavior and leve...

My guest today is Jason Ogle, who describes himself as a passionate user defender — fighting for users who are victims of bad design decisions.  He's an influential podcaster whose amazing USER DEFENDERS podcast is continuing to inspire and equip an audience of hungry, ambitious designers and UXers.  Jason believes in failing early, and learning often. And as you’ll hear, every one of those f...

My guest today is Kristin Currier Ludlow , a Digital Designer with over 20 years of helping people shop better online and in stores. In my experience, retail is one of the toughest industries to advocate for and create UX change, but as you'll hear, it's a challenge Kristin has risen to — and overcome . Kristin believes that everything in retail — and life — is user experience. Whether y...