Listening to America

Clay welcomes Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Joe Ellis to the program to discuss America at 250. Ellis is the author of more than a dozen books about the Early National Period. He has been in several Ken Burns documentaries and a wide range of other media projects. Ellis believes the American republic is in grave danger and could still collapse. Still, he hopes that the American people are wakin...

Host David Horton interviews the third president, Thomas Jefferson, about the circumstances surrounding the writing of the most important document in American history. Arguably the most important document in human history. Jefferson insisted that he was only trying to articulate what every American was thinking in the early summer of 1776. David Horton asks Mr. Jefferson to read the entire text of...

Clay welcomes one of his favorite guests, Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky, to talk about America at 250. Many Americans are bewildered and frightened by the current state of the Union, unsure how things got so partisan and paralyzed. Instead of offering our personal opinions on the current crisis, we, as historians, attempt to contextualize the present moment within the broad sweep of American history, beg...

Clay interviews Peter Stark, the author of a new book on the 1540 exploration of what would eventually become the United States by Spanish Conquistador Francisco Coronado. The Lost Cities of El Norte is a remarkable examination of an expedition that took place 250 years before Lewis and Clark. The book chronicles Coronado's search for the famed Seven Cities of Cibola, rumored to house untold wealt...

From Devils Tower in northwestern Wyoming, Host David Horton and Clay Jenkinson discuss Theodore Roosevelt's conservation achievements. When the National Monuments and Antiquities Act  was passed  in 1906, President Roosevelt lost no time in setting aside what would become 18 National Monuments, starting with Devils Tower just west of the Black Hills. Roosevelt had little to do with the creation o...

Clay and his frequent guest, the redoubtable Lindsay Chervinsky, discuss books written about Jefferson's declaration, arguably the most important document in the history of liberty. Among the titles discussed are Walter Isaacson's recent The Greatest Sentence Ever Written, which celebrates the preamble of the Declaration of Independence, to Garry Wills' award-winning 1978 Inventing America, which...

Host David Horton interviews Thomas Jefferson about freedom of expression in America. Did the Founding Fathers know what they were doing when they ratified the extraordinary First Amendment of the Constitution? What limits, if any, should there be in the expression of ideas in a free society? When, if ever, can government suppress press freedom? What protections do American citizens have against m...

Clay interviews Craig Fehrman, the author of an important new book on Lewis and Clark, This Vast Enterprise: A New History of Lewis and Clark . Fehrman approaches the great story of the Lewis and Clark Expedition by viewing it through the eyes of the often-overlooked participants: Sergeant John Ordway, Clark's enslaved valet York, and Sacagawea. Rigorously researched and grounded in actual histori...

Clay's conversation with Italian journalist Marzio Mian about his new book, Volga Blues: A Journey into the Heart of Russia. Mian and his photographer spent four weeks following the Volga River from its source northwest of Moscow to its mouth on the Caspian Sea. The Volga River is considered the mother and the flowing heart of Russia. Traveling by car with two sometimes dubious Russian guides, Mar...

Guest host David Horton interviews President Thomas Jefferson about his strong anti-royalist principles. In the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson lambasted King George III for his crimes against the American colonists. Jefferson did not go quite as far as Thomas Paine, who called George III "the royal brute of England," but he wanted to eliminate all echoes of monarchism in American public li...

    Frequent guest host David Horton interviews the third president of the United States, Thomas Jefferson, about his five years in France between 1784 and 1789. After the death of his wife in 1782, Jefferson permitted his closest friend, James Madison, to propose that he be sent to Europe to negotiate commercial treaties. When Jefferson assimilated his diplomatic post, Dr. Benjamin Franklin final...

Beau Breslin interviews Clay on current events. First, the successful launch on April 1st of Artemis II, America's first space mission to the moon in more than 50 years. The launch's success was not particularly unexpected, but our relief was palpable when it was nearly flawless. Second, Ken Burns' latest documentary is a three-part study of the life and achievements of Henry David Thoreau. Clay w...

Clay and frequent guest Beau Breslin of Skidmore College try to place Donald Trump's war in Iran in the context of American history with a particular emphasis on the war powers language of the U.S. Constitution. The Founders considered war so grave that they did everything in their power to make sure it was not undertaken without the broad support of the American people. Wars must begin in Congres...

Clay's conversation with Dr. Susan Ryan of the Crow Canyon Archaeological Center in Cortez, Colorado, about the history of the National Monuments and Antiquities Act, signed into law by President Theodore Roosevelt on June 8, 1906. The Monuments and Antiquities Act gives the president of the United States virtually unlimited authority to designate national monuments on America's public lands by ex...

Frequent guest host David Horton welcomes Thomas Jefferson to the podcast to discuss political theater and State of the Union addresses. Although Jefferson was a master of political theater, he chose not to take his annual State of the Union messages in person to Congress. He sent his messages by courier and assumed Congress would study them at their convenience. After Jefferson makes his views cl...

Clay's conversation with Char Miller , an endowed professor of environmental history at Pomona College and author of more than a dozen highly regarded books. How did America develop its public lands? Who were the key players in the formation of National Parks, Monuments, Forests, Wildlife Refuges, and Game Preserves? How fragile is the public domain at a time when the Trump administration seeks to...

Clay's conversation with Erik and Christopher Ewers, the directors of the upcoming three-part documentary on the life and achievements of Henry David Thoreau, the New England radical and the author of Clay's favorite American book, Walden. Five years in the making, with dozens of interviews and fabulous footage of Concord, Massachusetts, and the environs of Thoreau's famous cabin at Walden Pond, t...

Clay's conversation with historian Beau Breslin about the nuts and bolts of a constitutional convention in America. Neither Clay nor Beau thinks such a convention is likely, given the constitutional conservatism of the American people, but if Americans chose to hold one around the 250th birthday of the United States, how would it be organized? How would we choose delegates to ensure, this time, th...

Guest host Russ Eagle interviews Clay about his ambitious downsizing project. For several decades, Clay has explored the world of Thoreau's great book Walden, which calls on us to reduce the clutter of our material lives to open our spiritual arteries. Simplify, simplify, and minimize, says Thoreau. Finally, Clay decided to undertake the purge. So far, he has given away 3,000 books to a public lib...

Clay joins journalist Jonathan Thompson, publisher of The Land Desk on Substack and author of Sagebrush Empire: How a Remote Utah County Became the Battlefront of American Public Lands . Thompson, who is currently living in Greece, begins by providing a European perspective on what is happening in the United States — the assault on NATO, the flirtation with taking Greenland from Denmark, the overr...

Clay interviews the award-winning historian Joe Ellis about America's tragic legacy of slavery, and about the dispossession of American Indians from their sovereign homelands. Professor Ellis has often argued that what happened with respect to African Americans was Shakespearean tragedy — in other words, if the better angels of American life had prevailed, things might have turned out differently;...

Clay welcomes author Matthew Davis to talk about his new book, Biography of a Mountain: The Making and Meaning of Mount Rushmore . How did it happen that a mountain in the heart of the Black Hills of South Dakota, in land sovereign to the Lakota Indians, came to be the canvas on which Gutzon Borglum carved four monumental figures in American history: Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, and Theodore Ro...

Clay interviews the adventurous Brits Nat and Mikey, school teachers who got it into their heads to float the entire Missouri and Mississippi River corridor. They began on August 5, 2025, and completed their journey in the second week of January 2026. They floated more than 3,000 miles from Three Forks, Montana, to the Gulf of Mexico, where they pulled their canoe out of the water for the last tim...

Clay's favorite guest, Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky, makes her first 2026 appearance to discuss foreign policy in the administrations of George Washington, John Adams, and Thomas Jefferson. America's recent incursion into the sovereign nation of Venezuela raises questions about the war powers in America. The Founding Fathers were adamant that Congress (not the executive) must initiate wars, and vote fun...

Clay joins author John U. Bacon of Ann Arbor, Michigan, whose book, The Gales of November: The Untold Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald , takes a new look at the sinking of the Fitzgerald on November 10, 1975. Four years in the making, Bacon's research unearthed new material on the catastrophe, in which all 29 crew members (all men) perished when the Edmund Fitzgerald went down. Was there crew error...