Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

My friend Laurie Lee Hall (convert, former Director of LDS Temple Design and Construction, former Stake President, in her early 60s) joins us to share her story. Laurie Lee talks about her lifelong journey to manage her gender dysphoria and eventually “live as the woman I am”. Laurie Lee talks about the impossible choices she faced in this journey as a successful 20-year Church employee (the last...

*** This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat *988 *** My friend Hunter Howell (Bio Medical Science Major, New Mexico/Farmington RM, Suicide Survivor) joins us to share his story. Hunter talks about his pre-mission years navigating his same-sex attraction, completing a mission (including falling in love with a companion), and being a BYU-Idaho student. At BYU-Ida...

My friend Heather Prinz (lives in Fayetteville Arkansas, Speech Pathologist, Sexual Assault Survivor: Dr. Broadbent OBGYN lawsuit) bravely joins us to share her story. Heather talks about her sexual assault under the guise of medical care, discovering she was one of hundreds of other victims, and her journey through trauma and healing. Heather talks about how she felt at the time of the assault, h...

My friend David Smurthwaite (married father of 4, gender expansive, active Latter-day Saints) joins us to share ideas on ministering to anyone struggling with the updated Church transgender policies. David starts with a brief recap of his own story (including talking to his Bishop at age 11 and opening up to his wife Marisa about 8 years ago). David then talks about the new policies—and what we ca...

My friend Dr. Kristine Coons (active Latter-day Saint, Internal Medicine Physician, came out to her wife in 2014, was on episode 699) joins us to share her journey/insights. Kristine brings a unique and needed perspective with her medical expertise in understanding gender dysphoria and the nuance of defining gender/biological sex—along with her own experience being transgender. Kristine also talks...

Guest Host: Tonya Miller Exponent II has played an essential role in creating a shared, safe space for women and gender minorities connected to the Church to explore and express the impacts of "isms" in Church culture. It began in the Boston area as a quarterly newspaper in 1974 by friends who had met and worked on projects together in the Relief Society, and today it continues to provide that spa...

**This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988** My friend Z Blanchard, (lived in Utah, Costa Rica, San Diego and Ecuador; Argentina RM; attending UVU in Utah; age 21) joins us to share his story as a bisexual member of the Church of Jesus Christ out of his heartfelt desire to give hope to others. Z (youngest of four siblings, with three older sisters) begins by...

This episode is dedicated to the loving memory of JeNeal Nichol Miller, who passed away on Pioneer Day this year. She inspired everyone she knew to be nonjudgmental and Christlike. She was a true ally and is deeply missed. **This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988** My friend Tonya Baker Miller (married mother of four, active LDS, Founder/Clinical Director...

**This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988** My friend Caysen Crum (New Hampshire RM, Southern Utah University Grad, HXP Guide, Further Physician, Minersville Utah) joins us to share his story of doing everything he could to be “Mr. perfect and straight” (including serving a perfectly obedient mission, dating women, excelling at sports/academics) and how tha...

My friend Ben Bernards (lives in Sacramento, RM, current Bishopric member, author, podcaster, EFY speaker, early 40s) joins us to share their family story. This story started with three children — a daughter and then two sons — but now continues with 3 daughters, as both of their sons are transgender. Ben talks about how he and his wife Megan are navigating this road to support their transgender a...

Michelle and Steve Shaw are the parents of four children, three of whom have been diagnosed with neurological disabilities, ranging from ADHD to anomalies in the brain. They are active members of the Church and live in the Seattle area; Michelle serves in her Stake Primary Presidency and Steve serves on the Stake High Council. Michelle is also a special education teacher, and teacher of the blind...

My friend John Crane (lives in Austin TX, grew up in Oregon/Washington, Sweden RM 1966-68, married a woman, has 4 kids and many grandkids, divorced, been with husband Thom for over 35 years, no longer LDS), joins us to share his story being gay and a deep believer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. John starts with his growing up years and finding his spiritual home in the Church and then serving a su...

My friend Guillermo Lemus (age 30, BYU grad student, BYU-Idaho grad, married, RM) joins us to share his multi-year journey to process the complicated aspects of our Church and find a way to remain a member of the Church. In sharing his story, Guillermo normalizes a faith crisis/expansion (including all the pain one feels on this road) and what he (and other did) to help/support him. Guillermo uses...

My friend and mentor Bryce Cook (married, father of 6 children/7 grandchildren) joins us to talk about how he and his wife Sara navigated the road of having two gay sons (which started in 2003 when their son Trevor came out as gay). Bryce talks about how his worldview of gay people dramatically changed upon learning his good/talented/spiritual son is gay. Bryce talks about Trevor “wanting companio...

** Trigger Warning. This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call, test, chat 988 ** My friend Seth Price (Canadian, Age 20, Service Missionary) joins us to bravely share his story. Seth talks about dealing with and then accepting being called on a service mission (finished July 2024) when he always wanted to serve a proselyting mission. Seth talks about learning how to accept...

My friend Lori LeVar Pierce (grew up in the South, BA and MBA from BYU, corporate executive, married mother of three, teacher, lives in Columbus, Mississippi) joins us to introduce listeners to Exponent II—which is celebrating its 50th anniversary. Lori talks about the purpose of Exponent II (including a quarterly magazine, a blog, annual retreat) as it supports Mormon women and gender minorities....

My friends Jessica Salter and Jett Atwood (gay Latter-day Saint women in a same-sex marriage, attend and believe in Church) join us to share their stories. Jett & Jessie (who were married on June 15, 2024) talk about their supportive ward in Utah County (including their bishopric attending their reception) and being so fortunate to have many in their ward “catch” them. Jett (who is older than Jess...

My friends Sarah and Jeff Case (mixed-orientation marriage, active LDS, two queer kids) join us to update listeners on their story, share principles to keep families together, and the new Gather for Youth (ages 14-18) at the Gather Conference (Sept 13-14th, 2024). Sarah (middle school teacher, straight) and Jeff (clinical psychologist, gay) talk about a “process versus outcome” perspective to rais...

My friend Brenden Krogh (age 25, grew up in Grantsville/Mona Utah, Lives in St George, Active LDS, RM) joins us to share his story. Brenden talks about his journey to understand and accept being gay and the role of his Heavenly Parents and the Savior in this process—including personal revelation that he is created as intended and he should feel no shame for being gay. Brenden talks about his suppo...

This episode is guest-hosted by Tonya Miller. Tonya interviews Sarah and Josh Sabey, who run For Little Saints (@forlittlesaints). Sarah and Josh share the experiences they've had in creating their newest publication, "The Book of Mormon Storybook." Sarah and Josh talk about wishing that they had a way to share the scriptures with their children that would help them connect more deeply. They recog...

My friend Lilly MacKenzie (3rd year BYU student) joins us to share her story. Lilly talks about her journey (starting in her early years) realizing she was different and gradually developing the vocabulary, understanding, and person insights to realize she is transgender. Lilly talks about how she feels so much better being her authentic self. Lilly talks about all that BYU is doing to support tra...

My friend Austin Peterson (Ghana RM, BYU Grad, FSY Leader, Gather Event Coordinator) joins us to share his story. Austin starts with his journey to accept being gay and gradually coming out (including as a Bishopric member during his testimony). Austin talks about the good experiences and the painful experiences being open in his Latter-day Saint community. Austin talks his work as an FSY Leader a...

My friend Spencer Smith (age 31, ER attending pharmacist, BYU grad, active LDS) join us to share his story. Spencer (oldest of five; grew up in Sacramento) talks his journey to accept his sexual orientation and coming out to others. Spencer talks about not being able to make dating work with women and managing the sometimes painful cultural expectations to date and marry. Spencer talks about decid...

My friends Todd and Tanya Hughes (live in Ventura County CA, married for 29 years, recently divorced, still best friends) join us to share their story. Todd (who recently turned 50) shares his background growing up gay in the church, and all the shame and self-hate that came with that. Todd and Tanya met on their missions and ended up getting married, after Todd told her he was gay during their co...

**This podcast mentions suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988** My friend Jeremy Kerrigan (LDS convert, married father of 5, Arizona native, Chiropractor, photographer) joins us to share his story. Jeremy talks about being aware of this same-sex attraction most of his life but not fully addressing it until he came out to his wife in late 2023 (good experience). Once that box was...