Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

My friend and mentor Robert A. Rees (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Rees), age 90, who loved and supported his gay/lesbian members while serving as a singles ward bishop in Los Angeles from 1986-1992, joins us talk about his new book called “Imagining and Reimaging the Restoration”. Bob talks about how Joseph Smith creative mind allowed him to imagine the impossible leading to the first vision an...

My friend and mentor Kim Puzey (age 75) lives in Oregon, joins us to share his story: * Growing up in a blue-color world * Dad dying at age 12 * Friends dying at age 17 * Surprise decision to serve an LDS mission * 50 years of Church service—but a feeling that he worshipped the Church and callings * Less active, “steeple chaser” looking for the beauty in all faiths * Stroke—going from age 45 to ag...

This episode is a re-release of Episode 385 with Bob Rees (orginally released in 2019). See Episode 913 for his newest episode. Episode 385: Dr. Bob Rees, Educator, Writer, Disciple, LGBTQ Ally My friend Bob Rees joins us to share principles and insights to bring our families and congregations together. Bob, who holds a PhD and is the Visiting Professor and Director of Mormon Studies at Graduate T...

My friend Eric Chaffey (talented organist and director, grew up in Oregon/Northern California, lives in Salt Lake City) joins us to share some of this story including: Realizing his was gay during his teenage years (in the 80s). Incredible supportive dad Being a sexual assault survivor While at the MTC, telling Priesthood Leadership about being sexually assaulted which ended his mission (medical r...

Our son Jake Ostler (co-founder International Protection Alliance, master’s degree in social work, certificate in anti-human trafficking, LCSW, working with sexual violence survivors worldwide, expert speaker on this subject) joins us talk about online safety for youth/teenagers/young adults. In this episode (for parents/anyone with responsibility for younger people) Jake talks about: Creating a s...

My inspiring friends McArthur Kirishna and Anne Pimentel (authors, BYU grads, advocates for women and others on the margins) join us to talk about the new book (available on Substack—see show notes) which interviews Latter-day Saint women (some famous, some less so) across the world who have great wisdom to help all of us. Each chapter of the book is a post as part of The Women on the Stand Substa...

My friend Hunter Knott (UVU grad in computer science, RM) joins us to share his story growing up and starting to hear stuff about gay people (during his high school years), going on a mission (at the start of COVID, getting reassigned), and then after his mission starting to consider “he might not be straight”. Hunter talks about starting to come to terms with his sexual orientation in 2022 with a...

** Note: This is not a book bashing the Church or a list of reasons to leave. This is a book to help those who have left the Church move forward in a thoughtful and intentional way—preserving relationships along the way—and honoring those who stay in the Church ** My friend Madison Daniels (early 30s, RM, no longer LDS, future therapist) joins us to share his new book, "Letters to a Young Ex-Mormo...

OsPaZu, a self-taught author from Chile, shares his powerful journey of faith, same-sex attraction, and returning to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints after more than 20 years away. In this moving conversation, OsPaZu talks about serving a mission in Argentina, struggling to find his place in the Church, and eventually stepping away for over two decades. Through difficult experiences...

My friend Blake Muir (age 33, Utah State Grad, Utah State Employee) joins us to share his unique story in creative way—sharing lyrics of songs to frame individual chapters of his story—super powerful and deeply moving. Blake talks about realizing he might be gay in middle school—leading to everything he knew how to do to not be gay. The resulting shame and self-loathing leading to a suicide attemp...

My friend Jeanette Griggs (mid 40’s, engaged to her future wife, decades of faithful service) joins us to bravely share her story about her long road to understand and accept her sexual orientation. Jeanette writes about this in her new book named: “Be True: From Orthodoxy to Authenticity—The Journey Wasn’t Straight” Jeanette shares about growing up in Idaho where everyone was a Church member and...

My friend Becca Moore—who had a strong testimony—bravely shares the difficult road she faces as a transgender Latter-day Saint. Being transgender and living authentically has been healing and liberating for Becca—the challenge/pain is not being accepted/supported by the Church or her family. Becca (age 61, four children, 9 grandchildren, RM from South Korea Seoul West mission, grew up in Sandy UT,...

My friend Sid Bassett (married father of four, retired business executive, licensed clinical mental health councilor) and his wife Stephanie recently returned for being mission leaders of the Hawaii Laie Mission (2022-2025). Sid joins us to talk about his new podcast called “Return Missionary Next Chapters” which shares inspiring, honest stories of life after the mission. Through candid, vulnerabl...

Jenn Zingmark joins us to share her deeply personal journey through divorce, faith, healing, and rebuilding. Jenn is an active Latter-day Saint, wife, mother of five, grandmother of four, certified life coach, podcast host, and founder of Find the Joy with Jenn. Jenn shares her experience of marrying in the temple, becoming a young mother, and eventually facing the heartbreaking reality that her m...

** Why would I have an excommunicated gay former Mormon on the podcast? Well, I’ve learned that my excommunicated friends are usually good people—often doing the best they can with complex circumstances—children of the same Heavenly Parents and my spirit brother/sister. I learned a lot from Steven. Steven is not in the space “of burn it all down” and “everyone should leave the church”. He gives gr...

My friend Amie Steele talks about her powerful new Substack (see show notes) sharing their journey (along with her husband Randy) to love and support their gay son Hunter, his decision to date men, and falling in love with Jake, and their wedding in 2025. Amie talks about walking this road with Hunter and her personal revelation to love and support Hunter and Jake. She talks about the beauty of th...

My friend Greg Prince (writer, scientist, businessman, philanthropist—see bio at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Prince) joins us to talk about his book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church: Intended Actions, Unintended Consequences” released in 2019. In this episode, Greg talks about the future—and what might be possible for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. Greg talks about the process for other sign...

My friends, Jeff McLean (same-sex marriage, nationally known performer, vocal coach, author), Michael McLean (famous LDS songwriter, composer, playwright) and Jeff’s friend Dr. Brad Reedy (Co-Founder and Chief Clinical Officer) join us to talk about their new book: “Stay in the Room: How a Gay Son and A Mormon Father Found Themselves and Each Other” In the podcast, they talk about how “Stay in the...

My friend Kelsey Well (who was on Episode 815) joins us to update her story. Kelsey (former EFY counselor and seminary teacher, active Latter-day Saint)—who broke off an engagement to a man realizing it wasn’t right which she talked about in her prior episode—talks about falling in love with Christina and their upcoming marriage. Kelsey also shares their desire to remain active members of their wa...

In one of our bravest, raw, and most vulnerable episodes, my friend Rod Gardner (married father of 5, lives in Northern Utah, dentist, age 60) shares his story/new book called “Second Change Again: A Dentist’s Journey from Professional Success to Prison, Addiction, and Ultimate Redemption”. Rod shares how drugs became a coping mechanism to deal/escape with the anxiety/scrupulosity he experiences a...

My friend Wilson Privado (BYU Master’s Degree in school psychology, BYU-Idaho undergrad, RM Salt Lake City Mission, Queer, Age 29) joins us to share his story. Wilson talks about pushing down his same-sex attraction before his mission, during his mission and after his mission—and trying to make it work with a girl. Wilson eventually concluded—as he couldn’t make it work with a woman—“no happy endi...

My friend Greg Prince (writer, scientist, businessman, philanthropist—see bio at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Prince) joins us to talk about his book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church: Intended Actions, Unintended Consequences” released in 2019. In this episode, Greg talks the legal efforts of the Church to stop same-sex marriage starting in Hawaii (1990), Proposition 22 (2000) and Propo...

My friend Amy Thelin (who grew up in Virginia, served in Tahiti Papeete Mission, taught at the Missionary Training Center, and graduated from Brigham Young University) joins us to share her story. Amy reflects on the deeply spiritual experiences that led her to become active in the Church and serve a mission, motivated by her desire to help others feel the love of Christ. Amy also talks about retu...

My friend Dilyn Eyerly (student at Utah Valley University, age 31, RM, active LDS) joins us to share her story. Dilyn talks about growing up and realizing she was not straight and navigating that with herself, her family and the Church. Dilyn talks about her decision to serve a mission and the suicidal ideation she dealt with and how she was able to finish her mission. Dilyn talks about “Godly Ang...

My friend Chad Call (late 30s, gay, former business/event executive, bridge builder) joins us to share his story. Chad talks about growing up in Kaysville Utah, serving a mission, being active in his YSA Ward, stepping away from the Church, coming out as gay and making his way forward. Chad talks about his supportive parents (Lisa and Jeff—Jeff was my missionary companion in England) and all they...