Life After Ministry

Few ministry leaders expect the end of their pastoral chapter to unfold differently than they imagined. Yet for many, transition arrives carrying both grief and unexpected opportunity. In this honest conversation, Scott Sauls reflects on stepping away after more than 30 years of pastoral ministry, processing the loss of a role he loved, recovering from work addiction, and discovering a new calling...

Founder transitions are some of the most difficult moments in ministry leadership, but they don't have to end poorly. After leading the church he planted for 27 years, Keith Spurgin shares the lessons he learned about succession, feedback, sabbaticals, and letting go with confidence.  He also reflects on the leadership mistakes he nearly made during COVID and how stepping away for a year ultimatel...

Many leaders secretly believe their value comes from what they do. But what happens when the title disappears, the ministry ends, or life takes a turn you never expected? In this deeply personal conversation, Steve Cummings shares his journey through ministry leadership, addiction recovery, job loss, financial uncertainty, and ultimately discovering a deeper identity as a beloved son of God.  From...

Most leaders know succession planning matters. Far fewer know how to start the conversation. In this episode, Gary Blackard, President and CEO of Adult & Teen Challenge USA, shares lessons from leading a national ministry, navigating leadership transitions, and helping people find hope in the midst of life's most difficult challenges. From succession planning and organizational stewardship to...

Success in ministry can hide struggles that few people ever see.  While Will Acuff was helping build a nonprofit that would eventually launch thousands of entrepreneurs and transform communities, his family was walking through years of exhaustion, medical challenges, and uncertainty.  The contrast forced him to confront a difficult question: what happens when the strategies that helped you succeed...

Leaving ministry is rarely a simple decision.  For many pastors, it comes after years of carrying responsibility, managing expectations, and trying to care for everyone around them while quietly neglecting themselves and their families.  In this episode, Shawn Gwaltney shares the story of how ministry slowly became unsustainable, what pushed him toward transition, and how he eventually rediscovere...

The Church is carrying more tension than many leaders know how to navigate. Political polarization, fractured trust, rising anxiety, and unrealistic expectations on pastors are reshaping congregations across the country.  In this conversation, Dr. Andrew Hale shares why he believes the Church is not collapsing but entering a moment of reformation.  Together, we explore how ministry leaders can sto...

Leadership transitions often expose something many leaders spend years trying to hide: the fear that they are not enough for the role they carry.  Whether it is a pastor navigating succession, a nonprofit executive facing organizational change, or a CEO realizing old leadership methods no longer work, the pressure to appear confident and certain can quietly isolate leaders from the people they ser...

Church transitions often expose what has been neglected for years.  In this conversation, longtime pastor Wayne Hoag reflects on the painful lessons he learned after leaving one church unprepared for his departure and how that experience shaped a completely different approach to succession later in ministry.  Together, we explore what healthy pastoral transitions require: humility, long-term prepa...

Leadership transitions often don’t fail in the moment they happen. They begin to unravel long before that.  In unclear expectations, undefined roles, and decisions made without discernment.  This episode explores how fear, lack of clarity, and misaligned leadership structures quietly shape outcomes. It offers a clearer path forward for leaders and boards navigating change. Key Takeaways Fear of mi...

Succession is one of the most important moments in the life of a ministry. And one of the most misunderstood. After decades working with leading Christian organizations, Steve Woodworth has watched leadership transitions unfold from behind the scenes.  Some created momentum and clarity. Others quietly eroded trust, fractured relationships, and stalled mission. What makes the difference? In this ep...

Leadership often looks clear in hindsight, but confusing in the moment. For Tami Heim, the journey into leadership began with a dramatic shift in ambition. Just days after graduating college, she surrendered her plans to follow Christ, stepping into a life where leadership was no longer about advancement but obedience. Over the next several decades, that calling would lead her through massive corp...

There’s a kind of grief that doesn’t come with a clear loss. No funeral. No ending. Just the quiet ache of something that never came to be. For many in ministry, this kind of grief goes unnamed and unaddressed. Drew Hensley calls it “invisible grief.” It’s the pain of unrealized hopes, whether that’s infertility, singleness, unmet expectations, or a future you were certain God was leading you towa...

Many ministry leaders begin their journey with a genuine desire to serve. But somewhere along the way, leadership can quietly become something else.  Platforms grow. Expectations rise. Applause becomes affirmation. And before long, influence begins to shape identity. Eric Reid spent years traveling the world teaching leadership alongside John Maxwell. From the outside, it looked like success. But...

What happens when a pastor steps away after decades of leading a church? Many leaders imagine retirement will bring peace and freedom.  But for pastors, the transition often carries unexpected weight. The loss of identity, the quiet grief of leaving a community, and the challenge of rediscovering purpose can make the next season far more complicated than anticipated. After serving the same church...

What happens when the calling that once defined you no longer feels sustainable? When the work you love begins to cost you more than you can carry?  For many ministry leaders, the hardest battles are not theological. They are personal. Emotional. Quiet. And often fought alone. In this episode, Matt Davis sits down with Don Ross, former pastor and founder of Manhood Tribes, to talk about why so man...

Is there really a difference between ministry and the marketplace? Or have we created a divide that Scripture never intended? In this episode, Curt Swindoll shares insights from 40 years of leadership across nonprofit, church, and for-profit environments.  Having transitioned multiple times - sometimes with a plan, sometimes without - Curt challenges the assumption that ministry is something we le...

What if the biggest lie Christian leaders believe is that ministry only happens inside church walls? When pastors and nonprofit leaders transition into the marketplace, many feel like they’ve stepped out of calling and into something lesser. But that assumption may be the very thing limiting the Church’s influence. In this episode, we talk with Chuck Proudfit about faith at work, succession challe...

Most ministry leaders expect relief after stepping away. What they don’t expect is the wilderness to begin after the resignation. In this honest conversation, Dustin Kleinschmidt shares how years of crisis leadership, misaligned values, and unresolved grief led to burnout, anxiety, and a deep reckoning with faith.  Rather than rushing toward resolution, Dustin invites leaders to reconsider what th...

Stepping away from leadership is rarely just a strategic decision. It’s personal. Emotional. Spiritual. Especially for founders and long-term leaders who have poured their lives into a ministry. In this episode, Jim West reflects on what it meant to hand off leadership of the Barnabas Group, a ministry he helped build and lead for over two decades.  Just weeks after that transition, Jim was diagno...

Most ministry transitions don’t happen suddenly. They happen slowly, quietly, and later than they should.  In this season-ending episode, we reflect on the patterns Ministry Transitions has seen over the past year while walking with pastors, boards, nonprofits, and faith-driven organizations. From delayed conversations to the quiet crisis of succession, this episode names the realities leaders oft...

At some point in ministry, we start confusing busyness for faithfulness. We tell ourselves that exhaustion is just the cost of obedience - that being needed, stretched thin, and constantly available somehow means we’re doing it right.  But deep down, we know something’s wrong. In this episode of Life After Ministry, Matt Davis sits down with his longtime friend Andrew Hartman to talk about what ha...

Most pastors imagine ministry as a lifelong calling, until something shifts - slowly, painfully, or all at once.  In this episode, Brad Gray and Brad Nelson share their unfiltered stories of leaving pastoral ministry, wrestling through uncertainty, and discovering the faithful presence of God in seasons where nothing made sense.  Their journeys reveal how transitions can expose hidden wounds, forc...

Dr. Nathan Baxter loved ten hours of his job. Those one-on-ones with staff fueled him. The rest slowly emptied him. Naming that truth started a two-year journey out of a role he’d held for decades. He didn’t abandon ministry. He changed vehicles so his calling could breathe again. In this conversation Nathan walks through a practical runway. He set a modest income target, built a small savings cus...

When the role that once fit like a second skin begins to suffocate, what do you do? For Duncan Robinson, it meant stepping away. No scandal. No collapse. Just honesty and courage to say, “I need to sit down and be fed.” That decision took him from church staff to radio hosting, from the pulpit to row three, and eventually back into ministry with a new clarity.  Along the way, he discovered how to...