Leadership Limbo

Episode Overview In the Season 2 finale of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark welcome executive coach, author, and InteraWorks Managing Partner Anne McGhee-Stinson for a conversation that challenges many of the assumptions underlying modern leadership. Drawing on decades of experience spanning military education, global leadership development, entrepreneurship, and organizational consultin...

Episode Overview In this special bonus episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark realize they accidentally miscounted the season schedule and discover they aren't quite at the summit of Season 2 after all. Instead of wrapping things up, they take the opportunity to do something different: turn the microphones on themselves. Through a mix of leadership reflections, personal stories, rap...

Episode Overview As Leadership Limbo approaches its 40th episode and the close of Season 2, Josh Hugo and John Clark pause to reflect on the ideas, guests, and leadership lessons that have most shaped their thinking over the past year. Rather than revisiting individual episodes, this conversation explores the recurring themes that surfaced again and again across discussions with guests from educat...

Episode Overview In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark welcome construction industry leader, consultant, and founder of Constructive Leadership Solutions , Dan Beatty, for a conversation about one of leadership's most overlooked tools: storytelling. Drawing on more than three decades in the construction industry, Dan shares how his unlikely combination of construction exper...

Episode Overview In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark explore one of the most overused, and often misunderstood, concepts in leadership: ownership. Leaders frequently say they want teams that “take ownership,” “act like owners,” or are “biased toward action.” But what do those phrases actually mean in practice? And more importantly, what conditions are leaders responsible...

Episode Overview In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark continue their series on psychological safety by exploring a deeper question: how do teams actually become psychologically safe over time? Rather than treating psychological safety as a static value or aspirational slogan, this conversation reframes it as a developmental process that teams must move through together. Dr...

Episode Overview In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark continue their conversation on psychological safety by moving from theory into the subtle language and behaviors that shape team culture every day. Building on the prior episode, the discussion explores how leaders unintentionally avoid tension, soften conflict, and emotionally accommodate others in ways that ultimately...

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark take on one of the most widely used—and often misunderstood—terms in modern leadership: psychological safety. While the concept has become a cornerstone of team culture conversations, this discussion challenges how it is being interpreted and applied in today’s workplace. The episode begins by examining a growing tension: by many measur...

  Episode Overview In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark sit down with Suzi Lantz, leadership consultant, executive coach, and CEO of Personal Peak Consulting , and Co-Founder of Oxygen to explore the intersection of self-awareness, behavior change, and organizational culture. Suzi’s journey begins in education, where her experience teaching and coaching middle school stude...

Episode Overview In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark move from questions to deeper internal work, exploring what it actually means to lead from self in moments of uncertainty, tension, and external disruption. Building directly on their prior episode about ambiguity, this conversation shifts from what leaders should ask to how leaders must show up. At the center of the di...

Episode Overview In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark take a different approach to leadership in uncertain times. Rather than offering immediate strategies or answers, they focus on something more foundational: the questions leaders must ask themselves when the world outside of work begins to shape what happens inside of it. Framed by global instability, political tension,...

Episode Overview In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark return to one of the most defining realities of leadership: ambiguity. Rather than treating uncertainty as something to escape, they challenge leaders—especially middle managers—to see it as the very condition that requires leadership in the first place. The conversation reframes ambiguity as more than just uncertainty....

Episode Overview In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark sit down with Dr. Aaron J. Griffen , Chief Student Affairs Officer at DSST Public Schools , to explore what it truly means to lead in complexity, chaos, and cultural tension. Drawing from over two decades in education—as well as his work as co-editor of Leading in the Midst of It All —Dr. Griffen offers a grounded, expe...

Episode Overview In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark explore one of the most defining — and uncomfortable — realities of leadership: ambiguity. Framed by a listener suggestion and grounded in real-world leadership experiences, the conversation centers on what it actually means to lead when clarity is limited, direction is evolving, and certainty is out of reach. Rather th...

  Episode Overview In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh Hugo and John Clark sit down with David Boelens, leader of the Integrated Talent Development organization at Raytheon, to explore what it really takes to develop leaders at scale. Drawing on his experience as a U.S. Army cavalry officer and now as a leader responsible for developing thousands of professionals in operations, supply chain,...

Episode Overview In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John build on recent conversations about presence, influence, and accountability by introducing a powerful leadership contrast from Liz Wiseman’s book Multipliers: the difference between Multipliers and Diminishers. While overtly destructive leadership behaviors are easy to spot, this conversation focuses on something more subtle — the...

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John sit down with Dr. Brandi Nicole Chin to explore one of leadership’s most avoided but essential responsibilities: accountability. Drawing from her book Hope Is Not a Strategy , Brandi makes a compelling case that strong intentions and motivational language are not enough to produce consistent, high-quality results. Hope matters. It is human and nec...

Episode Summary: In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John continue their series on leadership presence by shifting from definition to diagnosis. After exploring what presence is, they now examine what disrupts it. Drawing from systems theory, personal leadership stories, and practical workplace examples, they unpack the subtle forces that pull leaders out of connection and into reactivit...

Episode Overview: In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John explore one of the most essential yet misunderstood leadership capacities: presence. Moving beyond the idea of executive polish or charisma, they reframe presence as the ability to create safety, clarity, and forward movement simply by how a leader shows up with others. The conversation builds on recent discussions about influenc...

Summary In this episode of Leadership Limbo, hosts Josh Hugo and John Clark engage with Andrew Robinson, a leader in organizational development, to explore the limitations of traditional management practices and the need for a shift towards a development mindset. Andrew discusses his new venture, Oxygen, which aims to create sustainable leadership development systems that empower individuals and o...

Summary In this episode of Leadership Limbo, hosts John Clark and Josh Hugo explore the complexities of influence and relationships in leadership. They discuss the importance of trust, the distinction between kindness and niceness, and the role of feedback in fostering healthy professional relationships. The conversation delves into the challenges of self-preservation and cynicism, emphasizing the...

In this episode of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John turn their focus to one of the most critical and misunderstood leadership capabilities for middle managers: influence. Building on the previous conversation about the pressures and possibilities of middle management, they explore why influence—not authority, control, or coercion—is the currency that allows leaders to move people, ideas, and organi...

Episode Overview: In the Season Two premiere of Leadership Limbo, Josh and John return to the core reason this podcast exists: the often overlooked and overburdened role of the middle manager. Instead of starting the year with goals or resolutions, they examine a more urgent question facing organizations today—why middle management has become a major driver of disengagement, burnout, and organizat...

In the last of our Season 1 Redux - the Best of 2025 - we are re-sharing an episode all about a Development System: The Development Square.  We know that organizations who value development approach it systematically. It cannot be an idea, concept or belief by itself. It requires a paradigm and framework. If you are going into 2026 with goals for greater success in people development, this is a mu...

To wrap up 2025, we're re-posting a few of our favorite episodes from this past year. This week's redux is Episode 9 - Communication: Are You Trying to Be Interested or Interesting? As we spend time with family and friends during this holiday season, ask yourself, am I taking part in conversations in which I'm trying to be interesting or interested in others? We hope you enjoy this "Top Hit" as we...