In the Shift

Episode 64: In this episode we talk about what movement toward health might look like in toxic megachurch (or any church) spaces. Building on our discussions over the past few months we explore the possibility of an open-handed community, a movement away from coercion, about the conflict that often occurs between health and growth, about the importance of focusing not only the individual failings...

Episode 63: In this episode I'm joined by Shane Meyer-Holt as we explore the problems that emerge when we're convinced that we're "the good guys" (we realise this phrase is gendered, but we felt it reflected the patriarchal nature of many of these systems). If we believe that we have the answers that everybody needs, that we're uniquely called to rescue, save and bring light to a dark world, then...

Episode 62: In this episode Shane Meyer-Holt joins me again for an analysis of megachurch “doublespeak”. Doublespeak is what we’re calling the use of language that sounds good on the surface (and can in fact be used in really healthy ways) but is being used to coerce, manipulate, control and gaslight people. It’s where a word like “capacity” is being used to mean “suppress your emotional and physi...

Episode 61: In this episode Michael has a conversation with narrative therapist Nicole Conner and megachurch survivor Jess Holdaway. Jess speaks of her journey through the megachurch, the impact on her body and her experience of trauma, as we weave in and out of a wider discussion on religious trauma, abuse of power and burn-out. They share reflections on institutional and religious gaslighting, h...

Episode 60: In this episode, Shane Meyer-Holt and I continue talking about megachurches and toxic church cultures. We focus this conversation on the "creep", which is what happens when things change incrementally over time from the 'mild' toward something really unhealthy, coercive or toxic.  But because this change happens slowly, over time, within a bubble that lacks outside perspective and with...

Episode 59: In this episode Shane and I hit pause on delving into the megachurch playbook to check in and get a sense of where things are up to. We talk about how we've been feeling over the past few weeks as this conversation has unfolded, what feelings have come to the surface, and the different kinds of feedback we are getting. We also talk about what we're hopeful we've been able to do so far,...

Episode 58: In this 4th part of our ongoing megachurch conversation, Shane and I look at the origin story of megachurch culture. In other words, why did churches like this begin to emerge in the mid-late 20th and early 21st century? We also explore some of the key beliefs that sit at the heart of the megachurch worldview. We talk about the "who/what" (the "man with the vision"), the "why" (colonis...

Episode 57: Shane and I are back at it, talking about megachurch culture and some of the central themes that help us understand what's going on. In this conversation we talk about the emphasis on unending growth (at all costs), and the way in which language of "another level", "breakthrough", and the "best is yet to come" can drive a culture of toxic positivity and burnout. We also talk about the...

Episode 56: This is Part 2 of a conversation with Shane Meyer-Holt about megachurch culture and the concerning and harrowing stories emerging from victims of bullying, harassment and abuse within some of these churches.  In this conversation we talk about explicit and implicit coercion, the role of fear and the power of the charismatic ego, and we examine the "honour culture" that underpins much o...

Episode 55: This episode is the first in a series of conversations between myself and Shane Meyer-Holt (who you may remember from way back in episode 3) as we respond to some of the deeply concerning stories emerging from megachurches in recent weeks and months. There are common themes found in the experiences of those who have suffered under the weight of pressure, expectation, bullying, harassme...

Episode 54:  A conversation with Dr Jeff Crabtree discussing his research into abuse of power, sexual harassment and misogyny in the music industry in Australia and New Zealand. We explore what his research uncovers, talk about the complexities of power imbalance (it's not only about roles and titles), and how powerful men often abuse their power over others, especially women. Jeff also has a hist...

Episode 53: Dr Obery Hendricks is a life long social activist, he is one of the foremost commentators on the intersection of religion and political economy in America, and one of the most widely read and influential African American biblical scholars writing today. In this wonderful, challenging and insightful conversation we discuss his most recent book, provocatively titled - 'Christians Against...

Episode 52: In this episode we look at what happens when faith and belief get stuck in concrete, when they get locked in and locked down, and we’re unable to adapt, change, innovate, rethink, deconstruct and reimagine. And this concrete kind of faith often stems from a very concrete view of God, and can lead us to narrow and suffocating ways of seeing ourselves and the world, which in turn leads u...

Episode 51: In this episode we explore how the narrative arc of contemporary Christian faith can foster an unfounded confidence (and arrogance), a blindness to truths from outside of the system, and even authoritarianism and wild conspiracies. This can happen when we feel we're in on something special, something true that the 'world' won't understand, and when faith is centred on believing these t...

Episode 50: This episode continues the conversation on the problems and possibilities of Christianity, and explores what happens when religious institutions become narcissistic. In other words, when church communities become self-important, don't handle criticism well, lack empathy and support the powerful instead of centring the victim. While many human institutions, large and small, are captured...

Episode 49: The latest episode of In the Shift examines the fusion of Christian mission with Western capitalism and how it culminates in the "church growth" obsession. But when everything is oriented toward growth we see that for the church machine to function it needs homogeneity and often has an inability to deal with complexity and pain (suffering is very inefficient!). As people's lives are le...

Episode 48: This episode explores various paths of deconstruction and their sometimes overlapping, sometimes divergent, directions. In particular, we look at 4 of these trajectories - the liturgical, the mystical, the political and the agnostic. Faith deconstruction is a complex and often difficult/painful experience and sometimes, though we might discover a great sense of camaraderie and communit...

Episode 47: In this episode we welcome Dr Thomas Jay Oord back to the podcast for a three-peat; this time to discuss his views on life after death. We cover all sorts of terrain, from the biblical ambiguities associated with heaven & resurrection, to near-death and out-of-body experiences, to the philosophical outlook of panpsychism and the mind-body relationship, along with possibilities for how...

Episode 46: This episode unpacks the language of heaven in the Christian scriptures. One of the mistakes we often make is to read our presumptions into the language and stories of these ancient texts. Much of the time the biblical authors were ambiguous about life after death, and the 'kingdom of heaven' was not a place for life after death at all - rather it was about a present reality unfolding...

Episode 45: The "mark of the beast", the "antichrist", the "rapture"; these are terms associated with a relatively recent, and unfortunately influential way of reading ancient scriptural texts. So where do these ideas come from, what is the problem with them, and what are some alternative interpretations that might be more helpful to us? This episode pulls apart some of the assumptions that sit be...

Episode 44: In this episode I chat with Dr David P. Gushee about his important book published in 2014 called ' Changing our Mind ', calling for full LGBT+ inclusion in the church. We talk about his resultant expulsion from Evangelicalism culture, and from there we discuss the more widespread toxicity present within the movement (both theologically and culturally), made even more evident in the Tru...

Episode 43 - In this episode we continue our conversation about evil and the devil by focusing on three things: the language of spiritual attack, being tempted by the Devil, and the idea of the demonic. Although definitive answers are hard to come by, at the very least these ideas can function as a seemingly reassuring explanation for why things don't always go well for us. But are there implicati...

Episode 42: In this first of two episodes on the topic, we look at the language of principalities, powers, demons and the devil, and ask - what on earth is going on here? Is any of this real, what does it mean, what damage can these ideas do, and can a conversation about demons and evil powers be of any use to us in a modern society, or is it all just nonsense? 

[**Content Warning** This episode includes conversations that deal with abuse, trauma, sexual assault and self-harm. Specifically from 7min to 27mins]  Episode 41: In this conversation with Paul Young (The Shack) and Brad Jersak (A More Christlike Way) we discuss the themes found in their jointly written novella - The Pastor: A Crisis . We talk about the cyclical impact of abuse, understanding (an...

Episode 40: This episode explores where I'm currently up to in my re-thinking of Jesus, especially in light of a view of God who is in and through all things. From here, we look at three emerging themes that come from the Jesus story: presence over ideology, grace over status, and self-giving love over coercive power.