In the Shift

Episode 114: We're back and talking about the challenges and possibilities of non-coercive community. In this conversation, Shane and Michael dive into the complexity of what happens when the forces of capitalism and individualism and/or the toxicity and abuse of previous religious communities make belonging to any community really challenging. One of the really potent aspects of high-demand relig...

Episode 113: In the Shift is back for 2026, and so is Shane – and we’re continuing our conversations about non-coercive community and how we build communities of care in a world shaped by capitalist individualism. In this episode we look at how society has changed over time, toward what is often called secularisation. In the secularised West, participation in communal life has become something of...

Episode 112: In this episode Shane Meyer-Holt returns for another conversation about the journey of engaging in and building non-coercive communities. We talk about how individualism and capitalism have profoundly shaped so many of us in themes of self-reliance and the importance of opportunity (as well as the freedom to take up those opportunities). These are deeply inbuilt into the psyche of our...

Episode 111: In this collab episode between In the Shift and Sunday Sanctuary, I’m joined by Petra Bagust to discuss “why church?” In this conversation we chat through a bunch of reasons why church communities and collectives can be both challenging and nourishing/meaningful. We talk about the place of ritual, song and storytelling in human communities and identity formation, the challenges of ind...

Episode 110: We continue our series on non-coercive community - a bunch of conversations in which we are exploring the possibilities and challenges we experience in building sustainable non-coercive collectives and communities. In this conversation, Shane Meyer-Holt discusses his research into capitalism, care and community. We reflect on how so many aspects of our lives have become shaped, define...

Episode 109: Evangelicalism is having a moment.... some are calling it revival - but I think something else is going on here. This is a shorter episode (rather unplanned) on the contemporary Christian worship movement and the way it intersects with the revivalist hopes of Evangelicals/Pentecostals/Charismatics.  What we find is that these movements have come to shape many Christian's understanding...

Episode 108: Steff Fenton is author of the new book "Gender Expansive Faith: How Trans Lives are Illuminating the Divine, Transforming Feminism and Ending Christian Patriarchy." In this conversation we talk about Steff's journey of coming to terms with both their sexuality and then gender identity whilst also belonging to the church. We jump into a bunch of stuff including the distinctions between...

Episode 107: This is the first in a series of conversations with Shane Meyer-Holt about the possibilities and challenges in building non-coercive communities and collectives. In particular, we're interested in what church looks like for those of us who feel done with high-control/high-demand forms of religion, who are unable to go back to certainty, who have no desire for the "carrot & stick"...

Episode 106: Elise Heerde (she/her) is author of the recently published book "Holy Hell: Saved so hard I needed therapy" .  In this conversation we talk about Elise's experience of growing up within a high-demand/high-control pentecostal megachurch, her journey toward becoming a leader and staff member, through to the ways in which it all fell apart. Elise has now gone on to work in the space of h...

Episode 105: Dr Andrew Shepherd is a Senior Lecturer in Theology and Public Issues at the University of Otago, with a particular interest in climate and ecological issues and the wider polycrisis that relates to the convergence of current economic, political, social, cultural and ecological challenges. In this conversation we talk through these intersecting issues, and how the work of theology and...

Episode 104: James Beck works with an organisation called A Rocha Aotearoa NZ ( https://arocha.org.nz/ ) which is a Christian environmental conservation organisation. In this conversation we discuss the trajectory of his spirituality and work, especially how and why he made intentional choices to move away from the up-and-coming charismatic preacher kind of life, to become someone who instead is p...

Episode 103: Shane has recovered from his table-saw inflicted injury and is back to continue our conversation reflecting on the journey to 100 episodes of the pod - and more specifically, on where our spirituality, theology and meaning-making is heading. We tackle the slightly contentious phrase "reconstruction", what we might or might not find helpful about that idea, and reflect on what is shapi...

Episode 102: One of the predominant causes of our problematic relationship with the environment is the belief that humans are superior over, distinct from and independent to the rest of nature. We think this way partly due to our religious traditions that have understood humans as being at the centre of what God cares about, at the centre of the story of creation, and that salvation is ultimately...

Episode 101: This is the first in a series of 4 episodes exploring the intersection of spirituality and a response to the climate crisis. This reflection explores how Christians have often thought about the 'end of the world' and how this so often shapes behaviours and attitudes toward our ecological systems and how we treat them. Some theological views of the future claim that things will get dar...

Episode 100: This is it! We've gone and done it. We've made it to episode 100... and this means that we've ascended the mountain of success and significance and will finally get all the credit and recognition we deserve! Actually... it means none of that. But for this episode Shane Meyer-Holt interviews me (Michael) about the journey of the past few years, how I've changed since I started In the S...

Episode 99: In the Shift is back for 2025 - and we kick off this year's pod by looking at what is going on in the world right now. In many respects, the social, political and economic disruption we're experiencing is a natural consequence of the trajectory we've been on for a number of years - and is also connected to particular religious frameworks, beliefs and assumptions. Hyper-individualism, g...

Episode 98: Thomas Jay Oord joins the pod for a great conversation on how we might start to think about God in the wake of deconstruction. We talk about his and Tripp Fuller's 2024 book "God After Deconstruction" and discuss the different intersecting factors that lead to deconstruction and how and why there might still be a place for God on the other side. For those still left with the God-questi...

Episode 97: This episode explores the language of faithfulness to the way of love (of self, neighbour, other and enemy) along with the subversion of "power over" as being at the core of a certain kind of Christian spirituality. There's a contrast between this and the language of the church creeds - these creeds are statements about belief that have often defined Christian orthodoxy and have been u...

Episode 96: This conversation explores what it might mean to make meaning on the other side of Fundamentalism/Evangelicalism. As we "leave" one world behind (even as we carry many aspects of it with us - both seen and unseen), do we enter the 'real' world or is there no neutral space? What kind of world do we want to build, what values shape our engagement with the fundamental questions of what it...

Episode 95: This episode explores what can happen to our identity formation and our sense of being in the world when we live in a world built on the assumption that the apocalypse, the return of Jesus, and the end-of-the-world is likely to happen within our lifetime. What happens to our ability to be confident in ourselves, to think about the future, to make wise decisions, to care for the earth a...

Episode 94: Continuing our conversations around the world-building of our Evangelical/Pentecostal past, in this episode we examine the idea of depravity, sin and brokenness as being at the heart of humanness. What does this belief say about our fundamental identity, and how might that influence our sense of self as well as our relationship to God and others? We also explore the role that testimony...

Episode 93: In this episode we use the framework of 'world-building' (like we see in literature) as a way to start thinking about Evangelical/Pentecostal assumptions about reality and how they shape us. In particular we look at a world that is built on a high-demand God who needs to be pleased through obedience and sacrifice and the problems that arise with all of this. There was something so pote...

Episode 92: In this conversation we explore a central theme of many Evangelical/Pentecostal/Charismatic approaches to parenting over the past few decades - namely, "obedience." We discuss the ways that obedience and compliance stem from the theological paradigm that views children born as corrupted sinners along with the looming threat of hell as eternal suffering for those outside the faith. In t...

Episode 91: In this conversation we explore the questions that come up for us around faith and parenting and how we approach the process of discussing spirituality with our kids. For many folk who have experienced some kind of shifting or deconstructing faith, this can feel complicated or come with feelings of pressure. What should I be telling my kids? What happens if they ask a question but I do...

Episode 90: This episode is a follow-up to our previous episode (89) about navigating relationships post-deconstruction, and this time Shane Meyer-Holt does the interviewing! He talks here with Jane Kennedy (a counsellor who works in the field of religious trauma) about the gender and power dynamics that are at play within high-demand/high-control religious communities, and in particular she refle...