Dave Gardner and Stephanie Gardner on sustainability
GrowthBusters
Humankind has outgrown the planet, so we explore ways to recover from growth addiction. We dig into the more fascinating and hard-hitting aspects of public policy and the joy of living sustainably. It's all about ending our culture's love affair with "more," which is not making us happier and is killing our planet. No half-hearted greenwashing here; we share the brutal and joyful truth! Co-host Dave Gardner directed the documentary GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth, which Stanford Biologist Paul Ehrlich declared "could be the most important film ever made." Learn more about the film at www.growt...
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Dave Gardner and Stephanie Gardner on sustainability
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Latest episode
Apr 10, 2026
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Episodes
97: The Wit and Wisdom of Paul Ehrlich 10.04.2026 1:27:28
Continuing our tribute to the late Paul Ehrlich, we discuss the critiques and praise that followed news of his passing, and we share a VERY candid – and charming – "uncensored" 2020 Earth Day conversation. Paul points out a flaw on the cover of The Population Bomb . Can you guess what it is? Listen to find out. In our prelude and epilogue, we discuss his acerbic wit – was it helpful or did it hur...
96: Paul Ehrlich (1932-2026): Behaving Against Our Interests 18.03.2026 32:30
We lost scientific and environmental icon Paul Ehlich on March 13. We're honoring his memory by revisiting Dave Gardner's first interview with Paul, outside his Stanford University office in 2007 for the documentary, GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth . Ehrlich was most famous for authoring, with wife Anne Ehrlich, the bestselling 1968 book, The Population Bomb . While the book inspired widespread co...
95: Technology – Fast and Furious Into Overshoot 10.12.2025 20:48
The academy awarding the Nobel Prize in Economics is still drinking pro-growth Kool-Aid, while spiritual leader Acharya Prashant is serving up a healthier recipe - insightful truth about ecological overshoot. We examine both in this episode. Technology headlines much of the conversation. "Technology is not a way out of overshoot; it is a slower way in," according to Prashant. MENTIONED IN THIS EP...
94: Reporting on Population – Sense and Nonsense 18.11.2025 52:30
Population growth is making headlines for the wrong reason or with a biased perspective. It's too easy to draw erroneous conclusions about dropping fertility rates around the world. A surge of news stories from NPR compels us to offer both praise and criticism. Population growth appears to be coming to an end, and that's getting all the oxygen, not the fact that we have an overpopulation crisis. I...
93: Ezra Klein's Abundance Delusion 29.08.2025 40:49
Just say "NO." Some approaches to "abundance" are healthy, but one brand of abundance that's been capturing the cultural moment lately is a recipe for a dead planet. Dave and Stephanie assess key points made by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson in their book, Abundance . The result, a sound thrashing. The authors believe "America needs to build and invent more of the things it needs." They advocate el...
92: Economic Wisdom from the Natural World – The Serviceberry 05.08.2025 43:45
In this trial run for the "GrowthBusters Book Club," we discuss The Serviceberry: Abundance and Reciprocity in the Natural World - by Robin Wall Kimmerer. Cannibal economies, gift economies, reciprocity, and doughnut economics all come up. Sally Gillespie in her Substack column, Psyche's Nest wrote this about Kimmerer's book: "As disruptions and destructions reach our communities in all manner of...
91: Growth Addiction and Water in the American Southwest – with Gary Wockner 30.06.2025 1:00:18
Prolific river protector Gary Wockner gives us the straight scoop on the state of the Colorado River (and others), and the growth obsession that keeps southwest states and cities from responding rationally to increasingly scarce water resources. TODAY, nearly half the world's population experiences severe water shortages at least part of the year. So far, fresh water issues in the American South...
90: Degrowth – by Design or Disaster 25.04.2025 54:35
Learn about a new think tank that's doing some of the most important thinking on the planet. Matt Orsagh is co-founder of the Arketa Institute for Post-Growth Finance and co-author of a just-published white paper, By Disaster Or Design: How Finance Can Evolve to Avoid the Worst of the Ecological Challenges We Face and Enable the Transition to a Better Economic Model . That paper, and this episode,...
89: Bezos - We're Going to Need Another Planet 27.03.2025 31:12
Amazon billionaire Jeff Bezos thinks the U.S. can grow its way out of a massive deficit. He says we need a "growth mindset." Stephanie and Dave call it a "suicide economic model," and note that growth addiction is exactly what afflicts most policymakers around the world. The dynamic duo discuss the little-understood fact that a shrinking economy can be healthy – when it accompanies a contracting p...
88: Shutdown315: Start Post-Growth Living Saturday 13.03.2025 41:50
Unplug from an overshoot economy serving a growth-obsessed oligarchy. On March 15, the multitudes will begin a general strike across the U.S. – starving our profit and growth obsessed system. The commoners will reclaim power taken by the elite. Learn about Shutdown315 as Stephanie and Dave discuss, and chat with two Shutdown315 movement organizers, Chet and Bones. We're excited to share this with...
87: The Shit Hits the Fan 12.02.2025 25:33
In the face of accelerated global warming and increasingly severe consequences of climate disruption, UN projections are outdated and understating the problem, and the U.S. is going to produce and burn fossil fuels like they're going out of business. Meanwhile Trump wants to be sure Gazans aren't using condoms to float bombs over the border, and to be sure condoms and other family planning resourc...
86: Projecting Optimism in the Time of Overshoot 15.01.2025 52:09
Is optimism required in order to alert folks to our ecological overshoot emergency? Dave and Stephanie discuss the challenge of communicating the depth and urgency of overshoot without shutting people down. Also: Dave shares how he and a group of local growthbusters projected a guerilla "pop-up" billboard on New Year's Eve – attempting to provide an honest reality check, but not put revelers off (...
85: Election 2024 – Stephanie Attempts to Talk Dave Off the Ledge 11.11.2024 49:27
Dave and Stephanie dig into what caused voters to ignore Donald Trump's felony convictions, indecency, incompetence, narcissism, and dishonesty – and elect him president. This includes a review of the 50-year war waged by the mega-rich and corporations to undermine civility, compassion, equity and rule of law, to elevate the free enterprise system, rob the working class and enrich themselves. The...
84: Strong Economy Begins With Shrinking Workforce 12.02.2024 26:09
A new study debunks depopulation panic. For decades economists have perpetuated the false narrative, "If population growth reverses and begins to decline, the economy is doomed." This belief has so frequently been repeated by economists, politicians, business people and the public, that it is generally taken as gospel. Psychologists have characterized the phenomenon as the illusory-truth effect, o...
83: We Roasted Elon Musk, Raising the Curiosity of Thousands 16.11.2023 23:50
We made it VERY clear that Musk's worries about population collapse are ill-founded, and that attracted thousands more listeners than usual to our podcast. How did that happen? What kind of comments did we get? Find out in this episode. And get important truths about overshoot and overpopulation. Plus, learn how we'll give YOU the mic for an episode of the GrowthBusters podcast. We explain the l...
82: Governor Whitmer Unveils Ponzi Population Policy 14.07.2023 43:48
The Michigan Governor is apparently unaware that the world, the U.S. and even Michigan are overpopulated. Michigan population has been growing a little too slowly for her taste, so Whitmer has appointed a Chief Growth Officer and formed the Growing Michigan Together Council. Not surprisingly, her bottom line is to "spur economic growth." In an episode you should share with YOUR governor, you'll ge...
81 Overpopulation Think Tank – Part 2 07.06.2023 1:10:31
Are many vegans self-righteous, overbearing and insufferable in their efforts to recruit us? Would you believe "overpopulation" is still a taboo word? Or that human population numbers are still an "off-limits" topic at some conferences? This episode continues the conversation we began in episode 79 with five smart people: Nandita Bajaj, executive director of Population Balance Sarah Bexell, dire...
80 How Do We Get Out of This Mess? University Students Brainstorm 22.05.2023 1:23:05
Students in a DU ecological economics class discuss their biggest concerns and how our society might overcome them. Overshoot, polarization, the American Dream, politics, selfish individualism, and the capitalism growth imperative are among the topics explored – as GrowthBuster Dave Gardner sits down with leaders of tomorrow. Dave is joined by Professor Paul Sutton at the University of Denver an...
79 Overpopulation Think Tank – Part 1 25.04.2023 1:05:19
Five thought leaders break the silence on the role of human overpopulation in ecological overshoot –with an informed, engaging conversation about the subject. This is what intelligent discourse sounds like. For thirty years, many people – some well-intentioned – have been trying to silence discourse about human overpopulation. One of our goals on the GrowthBusters podcast is to break that silence,...
78 Discussing Overpopulation: Let's Clear the Minefield 30.03.2023 1:06:35
Why do discussions of overpopulation often elicit emotional responses of fear, anger, or indignation? Are anger and indignation what prevents productive discussion of population? These responses in a graduate college class provide an opportunity to explore how we might pave the way for productive conversations. Our guest in this episode, Professor Christopher Bystroff of Rensselaer Polytechnic Ins...
77 Fact-Checking News of China's "Demographic Crisis" 11.02.2023 55:00
The news that China's massive population dropped by nearly a million people last year was almost universally reported as a "crisis." In this episode we unpack the news coverage and take journalists to task for completely overlooking the fact that, in an overpopulated world, population contraction should be greeted with a collective sigh of relief. The population news was accompanied by an announce...
76 Now Here's What We Call an Eco-Superhero 15.01.2023 1:18:58
Getting take-out in your own reusable container, recycling bubble-wrap properly , and getting arrested – it's all in a day's work for an eco-superhero. Stephanie and Dave learn about climate activism with Extinction Rebellion, sharing quirky sustainability life hacks on social media, and the joy of a 58-hour train trip – from Stephanie's former co-worker and friend, James Comiskey. Find out... why...
75 A Vasectomy Could Save Herschel Walker a Lot of Money 28.12.2022 6:31
More men are stepping up and taking responsibility for avoiding unplanned parenthood. Dave celebrates this trend as he shares GrowthBusters plans for the new year in this special year-end mini-episode. A typical vasectomy takes about ten minutes. It's much less invasive, and less expensive, than the equivalent procedure for women. GrowthBusting highlights for next year: GrowthBusters online commun...
74 Bleak Friday, 8 Billion Post-Mortem and Damage Done by Guilt 01.12.2022 55:13
Examining news coverage and commentaries about human population passing 8 billion on November 15, we unpack the reasons far too many of us avoid discourse about human overpopulation. Why are we tap-dancing around the very dialogue needed so people around the world can make informed, responsible family-size decisions? We conclude the guilt many feel about their privilege is actually hurting those w...
73 Eight Billion is Too Many: Don't be a Twit About Overpopulation 09.11.2022 1:08:23
While Elon Musk erroneously claims population collapse is our biggest worry, world population is hitting 8 billion, adding the latest billion faster than any time in history. The UN has declared world population will surpass 8 billion on November 15, 2022. We persist in adding about 80 million people to the planet every year, despite overwhelming evidence we've outgrown our planet. Christopher Tuc...
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