Cyclical Podcast

How do the stories we tell shape the future of the Church? In the first interview of Season 6, Nick Warnes sits down with minister and public theologian Trey Ferguson to explore the power of language, public faith, and faithful imagination. Together, they discuss how telling a better story can help the Church build trust, cultivate belonging, and faithfully engage the world around us. Trey is a mi...

The Church has always evolved to meet the needs of a changing world. In Season 6 of the Cyclical Podcast , we sit down with faithful innovators, pastors, theologians, and community leaders to imagine what the next chapter might hold. Rather than predicting the future, these conversations explore how the Church can remain rooted in the Gospel while boldly adapting to new realities, embracing innova...

Today we interview Eric Sarwar, church starter in Fresno, California.  BDGT churches are led by a team of gifted people who share a vision for new people joining the family of God in large quantities. They are cultivating a new kind of growing community that they hope will revolutionize the Church.  They don’t need much to get started, just a large enough space to gather the church, plus space to...

Today Nick and Brendan reflect on what they learned from various guests of this season. Building the plan while we fly it and needing these conversations to draft the framework itself Churches inhabit different shapes depending on their season This assessment is not just for church starters and discerners. The surprising significance of the binary between Point Leader and Decentralized Leadership.

Today we interview Katie Nakamura Rengers about the church she started called The Abbey.  ADCI churches are highly resourced for missionary endeavors. These churches have an abundance of leaders who are tightly connected and passionate about transforming the way the particular church is expressed. They make significant investments in running lots of experiments, welcoming failure and being able to...

Today we interview Matt Yount, pastor at Victory Point Church in Holland, Michigan.  APGT churches are led by a point leader with strong shepherding and teaching gifts who gathers many people into a large centralized worship service and excellent programming for the sake of reaching many people with the good news of Jesus. Some have called APGT churches the “launch large model” because in order to...

Today we interview Yosam Manafa about the church he started in the San Fernando valley.  BDGT churches are led by a team of gifted people who share a vision for new people joining the family of God in large quantities. They are cultivating a new kind of growing community that they hope will revolutionize the Church.  They don’t need much to get started, just a large enough space to gather the chur...

Today we interview Debbie Bronkema, the founding pastor of Connect. Faith.  BDGI churches are highly apostolic in leadership. They are content to start with little to no resources. They decentralize leadership in order to leverage a variety of gifts necessary for their innovation. They have their eyes set on growth, envisioning an organic movement that they can catalyze. They are inspired to start...

Today we interview Sheila Bojorquez about the church she started with her husband in Los Angeles. Campaign Churches (BPGT) are startup churches with a charismatic leader who has a big vision for a large gathering of worshippers. The point leader is a highly motivated individual who catalyzes the energy of the church. The church scrapes together any resources it can get its hands on to invest heavi...

For over a decade now we've been joining leaders of all kinds in starting churches of all kinds. Big churches with staff and banners orchestrating a launch Sunday. Small churches that emerge out of the blue in a coffee shop. Business owners that wonder, “wait… is this business actually a church?” It’s been a joy to see how many people the Holy Spirit calls forward to gather God’s people into this...

Today Candice and Nick interview Jonathan Williams to talk about the intersection of faithful innovation and anxiety. Jonathan was the founder and CEO of Forefront, a faith and justice-focused organization in Brooklyn, NY. Jonathan’s role included overseeing community growth, developing strategic giving partnerships, and operating as a project manager for various community development initiatives....

In today's episode, Nick and Candice have a dialogue with Brandon Wrencher. Brandon Wrencher (MDiv, North Park Theological Seminary) is an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church, the founding minister of Good Neighbor Movement - an alternative faith community based in Greensboro, North Carolina - and Senior Community Organizer with Carolina Federation, a statewide, multiracial, multiclass,...

In today's episode, Nick Warnes & Candice Czubernat have a dialogue with Elle Grover Fricks.  Elle Grover Fricks received her Master’s of Arts in the Bible and its Ancient, Near Eastern Context from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in 2020. Elle is the Pastor of Refuge Church Pullman, a member of the Teaching Team of the BEMA Podcast, and co-host of the Text in Us Podcast. Previously, s...

In today's episode, Nick and Candice have a dialogue with Al Han about ending a marriage in the midst of faithful innovation.  Al is the founding pastor of Perch. Church, a chaplain at Good Samaritan Hospital in Downtown Los Angeles, and a father of two: an 11-year-old daughter and a 7-year-old son. He served as a pastor full-time for 14 years before he became a church planter four years ago...

In today's episode, Candice and Nick have a dialogue with folk-rocker Jennifer Knapp, a singer-songwriter, author, speaker & LGBTQ+ advocate. She has sold over 1 million albums, won 4 Dove Awards, earned 2 Grammy nominations, and released 10 albums.  Knapp’s storied career began in the Contemporary Christian Music Industry. After a meteoric rise to #1, critical and commercial success, and...

In the final episode of Season 3, Nick Warnes, Karen Rohrer, and Brendan McClenahan reflect on the season, highlighting key themes and takeaways.  Are churches in the business of meaning-making? Do faithful innovators need to hustle like entrepreneurs? How do stories create empathy? How do we listen to our internal voices of resistance? How do innovators see and understand themselves as whole...

In today's episode, Nick Warnes & Karen Rohrer have a dialogue with Liz Lin. Liz Lin (she/her) is the director and co-founder of Progressive Asian American Christians and a senior fellow at Newbigin House of Studies in San Francisco.  She's also a writer and educator on the topics of race and culture.  She has a PhD in clinical psychology, as well as master's degrees in theology and...

In today's episode, Nick Warnes & Karen Rohrer have a dialogue with R. Eric Thomas, a national bestselling author, playwright, and screenwriter. His books include Here for It, or How to Save Your Soul in America, which was featured as a "Read with Jenna" pick on NBC's Today, and Reclaiming Her Time: The Power of Maxine Waters, co-authored with Helena Andrews-Dyer. For four years, he wrote "Eri...

In today's episode, Nick Warnes & Karen Rohrer has a dialogue with Candice Czubernat. Candice Czubernat has been a therapist for 15 years and is the founder of the LGBTQ affirming counseling and coaching practice, The Christian Closet.  She and her team meet with people from all over the world for online telehealth sessions as they navigate the intersections of having an LGBTQ+ identity w...

In today's episode, Nick Warnes & Karen Rohrer have a dialogue with Michaela O'Donnell. Michaela O'Donnell, PhD is the Executive Director of the Max De Pree Center for Leadership at Fuller Seminary. She is the author of Make Work Matter: Your Guide to Meaningful Work in a Changing World. Additionally, Michaela is the owner of Long Winter Media, a creative agency she founded with her husband Da...

In today's episode, Nick Warnes and Karen Rohrer have a dialogue with Erin Angeli. Erin Angeli is part of the pastoral staff at Commonwealth of Oakland, a new, Jesus-centered community of faith in Pittsburgh. She and her wife Sarah keep a steadily growing urban homestead with raised vegetable garden beds, chickens, and a menagerie of pets. Erin’s work at Commonwealth is wide-ranging, but her favor...

In today's episode, Nick Warnes and Karen Rohrer have a dialogue with Derrick Weston. Derrick Weston has spent the last two decades working in churches and community-based nonprofits in Pennsylvania, Ohio, California, Oregon, and now Maryland. He manages the Rockrose community farm on the Baltimore's east end. Derrick received his Masters of Divinity from San Francisco Theological Seminary, a cert...

In today's episode, Nick Warnes and Karen Rohrer have a dialogue with Katie Nakamura Rengers. Katie Nakamura Rengers serves as the Staff Officer for Church Planting with the Episcopal Church.  She and her family live in Birmingham, Alabama where she founded The Abbey, a non traditional worshiping community that originally ran a community coffee shop as part of its neighborhood ministry. Katie...

In today's episode, Nick Warnes & Karen Rohrer have a dialogue with Scott Cormode. Scott Cormode is a leadership professor at Fuller Seminary.  He has recently written a book called The Innovative Church that describes how congregations can bring the unchanging Christian gospel to an ever-changing world. To get the book, visit https://www.amazon.com/dp/1540962261.  Here are some quot...

In today's episode, Nick Warnes & Karen Rohrer introduce Season 3 by laying some foundational groundwork and stories. In this episode, they cover... Why did Pittsburg Seminary's Church Planting Initiative change their name to not include "Church Planting"? What is adaptive leadership?  What is faithful innovation? How does imagination and plausibility influence our innovation? Who will be...