Confronting The Line

Anne Peterson and Chris Shelton — author of What Now: A Practical Guide to Life After a Cult — are teaming up for a 21-week workshop designed for anyone who has ever found themselves in a group, relationship, or environment that left them confused, smaller, or asking what just happened to me? We know how to lock our doors. We were taught to park under the lights and have our keys ready. But nobody...

She thought she had left. She had walked away from the church, built a career, created a new life. Then a panic attack in a Costco in the early days of the pandemic stopped her cold — and told her the truth. She had left the building. But the building had never left her. Susan Stirling is the author of Velcro Kisses: Prophecy, Trauma Bonds, and Reclaiming the Narrative. Her memoir traces a journey...

CONTENT WARNING: This episode contains open discussion of psychological harm, coercive control, and alleged physical abuse in an employment context. If you are a survivor of a high-control group or workplace abuse, please read on carefully and take care of yourself as you listen. That might mean listening with someone you trust, taking breaks when you need to, or choosing to read these notes first...

Children of the Forum is a special series on Confronting the Line, hosted by Lindsey Hartzel, exploring the lasting impact of Large Group Awareness Trainings on young people and those shaped by high-control environments before they had the language to name what was happening to them. This is episode three — and the series continues for as long as there are stories worth telling. Ann Betz came to e...

Cara Cordone thought she'd found her people. Then she tried to fix what was broken — and discovered the damage was by design. In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, Anne sits down with Cara Cordone — coach, advocate, and host of Fool's Gold: Discernment in the Age of Grift — to trace how a search for healing and connection led Cara deep inside ISTA (the International School of Temple Art...

What happens when the very tools meant to help us grow are turned against us? In this episode, host Anne sits down with Kellie Rhea — an Australian entrepreneur, former animal behaviorist, and horsemanship expert — who spent nearly two decades inside a personal development organization that slowly crossed the line from helpful to harmful. Kellie's story is remarkable: a self-made woman who bui...

If you've ever thought "I would never fall for that" — this conversation is for you. Anne sits down with author and researcher Jon Caven-Atack ( If Scientology Ruled the World , Opening Our Minds ) for a candid, wide-ranging conversation about how smart, well-meaning people end up in high-control groups — and why believing you're immune is actually your biggest vulnerability. Jon...

Brandon began Landmark programs at just 13 years old and quickly became a success story within the organization. But the deeper he went, the more he began to see things that didn’t line up with the promises of personal and global transformation. And when he started asking questions and raising concerns, Brandon says the response wasn’t reflection or change - it was gaslighting. He was told the pro...

What Makes Coaching Truly Safe — and When It Crosses the Line Not all coaching is created equal — and knowing the difference could protect you from real harm. In this episode, Anne sits down with Ann Betz, CPCC, PCC, MNTC — neuroscience researcher, master coach trainer, and co-founder of BEabove Leadership — to pull back the curtain on the world of personal coaching. They explore where coaching ge...

In this episode of Confronting the Line , Anne Peterson and Dr. Ed Gurowitz examine how prestige, proximity, and institutional affiliation can shield harmful behavior. Using the case of Jeffrey Epstein as a reference point, this conversation explores how charismatic figures embed themselves within elite networks, borrow credibility through association, and leverage social proof to build trust. Thi...

As part of Confronting the Line’s ongoing examination of how high-control personal development spaces impact real lives, this special series turns our focus to those who entered Landmark and similar LGAT environments as children—before they were old enough to consent, question, or fully understand the systems shaping them. In this episode, Marlo shares what it was like growing up with a single mot...

What happens when transformational programs reach people before they’re old enough to consent ? In this episode Anne formally introduces Lindsey Hartzel , who will be hosting a special series examining the impact of LGATs on children and teens. Lindsey shares her own story of growing up inside Landmark Worldwide , and why she believes early exposure to adult-oriented transformational spaces deserv...

What happens after someone speaks out—and an institution responds? In this follow-up episode of Confronting the Line, we examine how organizations act when concerns are raised without acknowledging harm. After Ben Eisenberg shared his experience of growing up inside Landmark Worldwide, Landmark’s Chairman of the Board of Trustees, Harry Rosenberg, responded directly. Shortly afterward, the organiz...

In this episode of Confronting the Line, Anne Peterson is joined by her friend and colleague Chris Shelton—former Scientologist and long-time advocate for people recovering from high-control groups. Together, they unpack a recent online incident involving a Landmark supporter posting what appeared to be insider gossip, disinformation, and misinformation in response to Anne’s work and public commen...

This episode examines the developmental and ethical boundaries of youth participation in transformational programs like Landmark Worldwide. Writer and strategist Ben Eisenberg shares what it means to grow up inside a high-control self-help framework before meaningful consent is possible. Ben’s work is not a takedown. It is a separation. Drawing from a manuscript he originally wrote to understand a...

On this episode of Confronting the Line, we examine some common myths the self-help industry often tries to sell: “Trauma is a choice.” “Healing is a choice.” “You can choose differently.” These ideas sound empowering on the surface—until they devolve to shame, blame, or silence for people who are already hurting. Anne Peterson, Ann Betz, and Brian Arbor dig into: The neuroscience of trauma respon...

Anne Peterson welcomes Ken Wortley, a former pastor and author of the memoir The Gospel of Secrets , to Confronting the Line. Our show explores how groups—from spiritual to personal development—can cross the boundary from providing help to inflicting harm and exploitation. Ken shares his deeply personal chronicle detailing his journey from a life defined by pretense to one of authenticity . For tw...

In this follow-up conversation, Anne Peterson and former Landmark Worldwide Headquarters Staffer Brian Arbor go deeper into the emotional and moral mechanics of high-control transformation environments. Building on Part One, they unpack how Chris Shelton’s R.E.M. Model (Rationalization, Emotion, Morality) helps explain why good people stay in—and rationalize—the harm of exploitative self-help cult...

In this follow-up conversation, Anne Peterson and former Landmark staff member Brian Arbor take an unflinching look at what happens when transformational ideals collide with organizational control. ⚠️ Content Note: This episode includes discussion of psychological harm, trauma, and moral injury. Please listen with care and take breaks as needed. A longtime participant and staffer, Brian reflects o...

In this episode, I am joined by Dr. Glenn Doyle, SEEK Safely Board President, and Jean Brown, manager and board member of SEEK, to discuss several upcoming events and programs we are launching in the coming months. SEEK Safely was born in response to the tragedy that took three people's lives, including Jean's sister Kirby Brown, due to an irresponsibly run pseudo sweat lodge. Almost 13 ye...

In Part 2 of Confronting the Line conversation with Chris Shelton he unveils his REM Model—a practical lens for understanding how we get pulled into (and out of) coercive systems. We map the three interacting layers that drive human behavior: ** Rationalization: the stories we tell ourselves after we act** Emotion: moment-to-moment feelings and deeper unmet needs** Morals: our “how the world shoul...

In Part 1, Anne sits down with cult-education creator Chris Shelton to trace the lived experiences that shaped his forthcoming REM Model. Chris shares his journey growing up in Scientology, signing the Sea Org’s “billion-year” contract, and enduring systemic abuse, forced “volunteer” labor, and sleep deprivation—all rationalized in the name of a higher purpose. Together, Anne and Chris unpack the...

Anne with author and transformational expert Ed Gurowitz dive into the fine line between empowerment and exploitation in personal development. Together they explore how transformational tools can be misused, why organizations drift into control and coercion, and what it takes to build safe, ethical spaces for real growth. Together they unpack the difference between authoritarian vs. collaborative...

In Part Two of this in-depth conversation, Anne continues her dialogue with influence expert and author Jon Atack, diving deeper into the psychology of coercive influence and the nature of high-control groups. Drawing from their personal experiences with Landmark Worldwide (Anne) and Scientology (Jon), they examine the striking similarities and differences between Werner Erhard and L. Ron Hubbard—...

“It’s not a cult.” 🚨 If you have to keep saying it… it probably is. Kyla, a former Landmark staff member, shares what it was really like behind the polished promises of “transformation.” Watch the full episode for the FULL story. #ConfrontingTheLine #CultRecovery #SelfHelpExposed #WorkplaceJustice