Chalk and Gavel LLC
Chalk and Gavel: An Education Law Podcast
Welcome to Chalk and Gavel, exploring how the law shapes education, one case at a time. Join education professors Chris Thomas and Jamie Kudlats as they demystify the complex, ever-changing, and fascinating world of school law. Both former teachers, Chris, a former school attorney, and Jamie, a former principal, draw upon their experiences to explore the stories at the intersection of law and education. If you're an educator, policymaker, parent, student, or someone just curious about education, Chalk and Gavel is here to help you understand how the courtroom is connected to the classroom.
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Chalk and Gavel LLC
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Latest episode
Jun 30, 2026
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Episodes
73 | Social Media and Accountability: Who’s Responsible for the Harms to Students and Schools? 30.06.2026 35:08
When should social media companies be held legally responsible for the harms their platforms allegedly cause students? And what happens when schools find themselves bearing the costs of a mental health crisis they didn't create? In this episode, we examine the massive multidistrict litigation, In re Social Media Adolescent Addiction/Personal Injury Products Liability Litigation , in which scho...
72 | Teaching and Religion: Where Does the Establishment Clause Draw the Line Now? 16.06.2026 58:13
When does teaching about religion become teaching religion? And after recent Supreme Court decisions, does that line even still exist? In this episode, we dive into Hilsenrath v. School District of the Chathams , a case involving a middle school world cultures class and a parent's claim that lessons on Islam crossed the constitutional line. The case forces courts (and educators) to grapple wit...
71 | Parental Rights and Gender Identity: The Court’s Shadow Docket Decision in Mirabelli v. Bonta 02.06.2026 58:13
Can a state stop schools from notifying parents when a student socially transitions at school? And what happens when those school-based decisions collide with educators’ legal obligations and families’ constitutional rights? In this episode, we take a deep dive into Mirabelli v. Bonta , the high-profile California case challenging state guidance that prohibited schools from disclosing a student’s...
70 | Student Athletes and Random Drug Testing: When Can Schools Engage in Suspicionless Searches? 19.05.2026 49:38
What happens when school safety measures collide with student rights? In this episode, we cover Vernonia School District v. Acton, a pivotal case that examines the balance between student privacy and school safety. The Supreme Court's decision on random drug testing for student-athletes raises critical questions about the Fourth Amendment and the concept of "reasonableness.” We also explo...
69 | Fake Accounts and Real Consequences: When Students Target Teachers Online 05.05.2026 50:28
What happens when student speech leaves campus—but crashes right back into the school environment through social media? In this episode, Chris and Jamie are recording the same room for about the 4th time to unpack Kutchinski as next friend to H.K. v. Freeland Community School District , a case involving a student-run fake Instagram account impersonating a teacher and posting a stream of vulgar, th...
68 | Live from SXSW-EDU: Navigating the Tides of an Education Law Sea Change 21.04.2026 34:56
What happens when you zoom out from individual court cases and start to see the bigger legal forces reshaping schools in real time? In this special live episode recorded at SXSW EDU, we step back from our usual case deep dives to explore what we’re calling a potential education law sea change —a moment where legislation, litigation, and policy shifts are collectively redefining what schools are, w...
67 | One T-shirt & “Two Genders:" School Regulation of Demeaning Student Speech 07.04.2026 1:08:27
What happens when student speech collides with evolving understandings of identity—and school efforts to protect students? In this episode, we examine L.M. v. Town of Middleborough , a recent First Amendment case involving a middle school student who was told to remove a shirt stating “there are only two genders.” School officials argued the message violated their dress code prohibiting hate speec...
66 | Tushies and Terminations: What Happens When a Principal Gets Fired for Reading a Kid’s Book? 24.03.2026 55:14
Get excited (and we're sorry in advance)! This case might be the best setup for dad jokes we’ve ever had on this show. What happens when an assistant principal gets fired for reading the kids’ classic, “I need a new butt,” to hundreds of second graders? Well, a court might question whether that termination passes the smell test, because something smells rotten about this decision! This is the...
65 | Book Bans and Local Control: Oklahoma’s Fight Over “Inappropriate” Material in School Libraries 09.03.2026 38:46
You know what we miss? With everything happening at the federal level, we haven’t talked about Oklahoma in ages. Well, today we're doing something about that! Today’s case deals with Oklahoma, school libraries, allegations of “sexualized” material, and a state superintendent determined to enforce new rules about what students can and cannot read. But this one isn’t just about book bans. It’s a...
64 | Public Money and Private Schools: When School Choice Vouchers Violate a State Constitution 24.02.2026 53:12
Can a state, like say, South Carolina, consistent with its state constitution, create a school choice program that allows families to pay for private school tuition from a state-funded education savings account? That's right, today we're doing a completely apolitical case. Just kidding! That would be a nice change, but this is education law; everything is political! So today, we're tal...
63 | Censoring Student Journalists: Free Speech and School Newspapers 10.02.2026 55:07
What happens when district officials censor a student’s article for the high school newspaper because they don’t like what it says? Probably nothing good. Some people might consider that viewpoint discrimination and frown on that sort of thing. On today’s episode, we’re going to talk about a pretty interesting case from about 20 years ago that pitted a high school student journalist against her sc...
62 | Inside the Courtroom: The BPJ v West Virginia Oral Arguments 27.01.2026 1:04:36
It’s time to cover the oral arguments in the transgender student athlete cases! Which means we need some expert guidance, and who better to join us than Dr. Suzanne Eckes? This is one we’ve talked about before, but can states prohibit transgender girls from playing on the girls team? We first covered BPJ v. West Virginia in episode 57. In that case, Becky Pepper-Jackson, a transgender girl, challe...
61 | Fired over a Coaster: Principal Free Speech and Community Values 13.01.2026 50:19
What happens when a principal’s retirement gift to a friend causes a community uproar? In this episode, we discuss the case of Stirling v. North Slope in which a principal made a questionable gift, on a school printer, that resulted in him getting fired. While that may not sound so bad, the gift repurposed the school's official motto and logo in ways the community found problematic. Well, the...
60 | Listener Q&A: Live from ELA 2025 with Dr. Janet Decker! 30.12.2025 56:04
Live from Kansas City (well, recorded live at the Education Law Association conference in Kansas City), we've got a special episode for you today. We're going behind the scenes of Chalk & Gavel to answer your questions about the show and education law! To help us out, we're joined by friend of the show, Dr. Janet Decker. Ever wondered how the show gets made or how to successfully n...
59 | Tragedy and Liability: Understanding Legal Responsibility After School Shootings 16.12.2025 54:43
When warning signs of violence appear in a school, what does the law actually require educators to do? And when tragedy occurs, who can be held legally responsible? In this episode, we examine how courts are addressing these questions through two recent and legally significant cases: Our Bellringer covers the Virginia case in which a jury found an assistant principal negligent after repeated warni...
58 | Anti-CRT Laws and Government Speech: Applying the First Amendment to Curricular Gag Orders 02.12.2025 53:11
Can a state forbid the teaching of Critical Race Theory? Do students’ First Amendment rights to receive information place limits on state curricular decisions? Are you ready for some “1984” George Orwell references, because Chris calls today's decision "double-plus ungood." That's right, it’s a bright cold day in November, and the clocks are striking 13. Again. This is another ti...
57 | Transgender Athletes and Sex Discrimination: The BPJ v West Virginia Supreme Court Showdown 18.11.2025 1:04:11
Can a state prohibit transgender students from participating on teams that align with their gender identity? Does Title IX, a law that was passed in 1972 and says nothing about transgender individuals, protect those individuals in 2025? Are you ready to talk about our next Supreme Court saga? On today’s episode, we’re going to talk about another consequential education-related Supreme Court case!...
56 | Book Challenges and School Procedures: Navigating Parents’ Requests to Remove Library Books 04.11.2025 46:23
What happens when parents challenge the inclusion of books in the school library, and the school engages in its clearly stated procedures? How should we balance parents’ rights and students’ rights? How quickly can a school board reverse one of its own decisions? Well, this one wasn’t as quick as the reversal in the Mahmoud case (which was like 24 hours). This one was like a month, but still. Toda...
55 | Bethel v. Fraser and the PG-13 Pep-Rally: Lewd Speech and Limiting Students’ First Amendment Rights 21.10.2025 43:57
Under the First Amendment, can schools punish students for their lewd and indecent speech? What happens when a student delivers a speech full of sexual innuendos to a required assembly of 600 high school students? How should schools respond when a high school speech sounds more like a late-night comedy set? Welcome to our two-year anniversary episode!! We’re going to stay true to form and cover an...
54 | Guidance Counselors and Mandatory Reporters: When Do Educators Have Reasonable Suspicion of Child Abuse and Neglect? 07.10.2025 58:01
When are educators required to report suspicions of child abuse and neglect as mandatory reporters? Are unsubstantiated rumors enough to create a reasonable suspicion of child abuse? Ready to hear Chris get on his soapbox? Today, we're covering a fascinating case for all educators, especially teachers. This is the kind of thing that anyone in a school setting could easily encounter. This is a...
53 | Coaches and Curriculum Clashes: The Legal Limits of Educator Advocacy and Free Speech 23.09.2025 51:37
When can a school, consistent with the First Amendment, non-renew an employee for their speech? What happens when the High School Football coach doesn’t like his daughter’s middle school social studies curriculum? Are you ready for some... facts that have nothing to do with football? While we're great at talking about sports, this case has nothing to do with football and everything to do with free...
52 | Vapes, Lies, and Students' Constitutional Rights 09.09.2025 57:19
When can schools expel a student for lying? What happens when a student’s initial lie snowballs into a tangled web of police reports, intimidation, and false accusations? We’ve talked about smoking in the girls’ room, but what about vaping in the girls’ room? In this episode, we bring TLO into the 21st century. TLO was about smoking in the girls' room, but what happens when a student is accused of...
51 | The Ten Commandments and the Establishment Clause 26.08.2025 48:05
Can a state require that the Ten Commandments be posted in every classroom? What does the Establishment Clause mean these days with the rise of the Free Exercise Clause and the impact of Kennedy v. Bremerton? Do you ever get deja vu? We do, because we swear we've already had this conversation. Today, we're discussing a recent case challenging Louisiana's requirement that every classroom display a...
50 | Tinker v. Des Moines with Mary Beth Tinker 12.08.2025 1:10:38
We've got a special episode for you to celebrate our 50th episode! We're joined by none other than Mary Beth Tinker, one of the plaintiffs in the famous 1969 Supreme Court case, Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District. We've talked about Tinker so many times on this show; this is the case that set the standard for students’ free speech rights in schools. And to help...
49 | Student Protests and Don't Say "Gun" 29.07.2025 49:43
Can schools control what students say at student protests? When is a student walkout a school-sponsored event? What’s the first rule about protesting against gun violence in schools? Apparently, the first rule of protesting gun violence is “don’t talk about gun violence.” At least according to the Shawnee Mission School District. Today’s case is another First Amendment student speech case. We’re h...
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