At Last She Said It

"If one is religious but not spiritual, it will not enhance mental health," says therapist C.A. Larson. In Episode 194, C.A. joins Susan and Cynthia for a conversation at the intersection of religion and spirituality. What are the differences between the two? How do they function together, and separately? And what influence might each one have on our overall wellbeing?

Bad things happen to good people—good works cannot protect us from the natural consequences of being human in an imperfect world. But in a church where the narrative often draws connections between worthiness and blessings, it can be hard to avoid internalizing the idea that we're special and can achieve control by doing the right things. "How do I reconcile my life experiences with the things the...

"We can do things a little differently and still be okay," says Anne Pimentel. She's a natural—but also intentional—space-maker, devoted to the idea that one can be a "good member" of the Church without fitting the mold. In Episode 192 Anne joins Susan and Cynthia for a conversation about how she learned and has internalized this lesson for herself. She's a Latter-day Saint woman whose desire to b...

"My faith life really begins with death," explains Pam Heggie. "Meaning, the real, genuine experiences of my life that molded me, shaped me and taught me what love and empathy really are, began with deaths. Four (so far) to be exact. Five if you count my own." In Episode 191, Pam joins Susan and Cynthia to discuss lessons she's learned at the intersection of grief and faith. In what ways might bei...

Bonus Episode 190 contains all the voicemails we couldn't squeeze into the previous episode's discussion exploring unique complexities of being a Sister missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

In Episode 189, ALSSI team member and returned missionary Katie joins Cynthia and Susan for a dive into listener voicemails about women's experiences as sister missionaries for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. From the pressures around the decision to serve to the daily realities of mission life, there's plenty to unpack. The rigors of mission service can pay big dividends and/or c...

"If you lift up a prism, depending on how you slightly turn it, the light will hit different facets, refracting and coming out in different ways. That's how I like to approach the scriptures," explains Cynthia, "Turning them just ever so slightly to see what different meanings there could be." In Episode 188, she turns her personal prism on the story of Jesus and the Syrophoenician woman, explorin...

"Spiritual stretching ... makes you stronger, gives you more balance, and keeps you stable. It took me years to understand that my questions and seeking that stretch me, and are really difficult to wrestle with, are healthy and completely in line with our theology. [...] We need more stretchy saints." Amy Watkins Jensen has plenty of hard-earned wisdom to share with those who may be experiencing c...

"Life as a member offers relatively little social time or enjoyment," writes Candice Wendt. "Being in the ward is mostly about passive listening and being told to follow leaders and go to the temple. [...] You're more likely to get asked to clean our very dirty building than be asked to dinner." In episode 186, Candice joins Susan and Cynthia for a discussion of some of the ways church has changed...

Rob Bell describes interacting with scripture like this: there's the black ink (what's written on the page), then there's the white space around it (where we dance with what's written). In Episode 185, Susan and Cynthia take on what Latter-day Saints commonly call the Parable of the Talents, from Matthew 25. It's a conversation about grace out of hand, covenant relationship, and how we may have co...

Many of us make temple covenants as young adults. Are we expected to have the same perspectives and priorities at 80 that we had at 18? In a church that emphasizes concepts like "staying on the covenant path" and "enduring to the end," it can be hard to know how to navigate when our life experiences invite us to grow in new directions. In Episode 184, Jana Spangler joins Cynthia and Susan to discu...

We asked, you answered! Of all emotions, anger might be the least acceptable for Latter-day Saint women. Many of us are not comfortable being around it, expressing it, talking about it, or even feeling it. But when we choose silence over healthy dialogue, what's the toll on our physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being? In Episode 183, Cynthia and Susan share listener voicemails about anger. C...

Does devotion always require walking uphill? What's the difference between good-hard and bad-hard? Do some Church members see the difficulty of a thing as a measure of the righteousness it requires? Has "more suffering and sacrifice" somehow come to mean "higher and holier" in the LDS narrative? In Episode 182, Valerie Hamaker of Latter-day Struggles podcast joins Susan and Cynthia to discuss thes...

As the centerpiece of Sunday worship and an ordinance pointing directly to Jesus Christ, the sacrament holds deep meaning for many Latter-day Saints. In Episode 181, Cynthia and Susan turn their grace-peddling to a conversation about the sacrament. What matters more: worthiness, or willingness? When did this simple remembrance of Jesus become about "renewing our baptismal covenant," and what does...

Mary once put a vinyl motto above her kitchen door that read, "That's What We Do!" It was a 4-word description of her life as a Latter-day Saint woman. For many years, she and her husband were "the couple who could get it done" at church. She describes looking back with grace for that younger self: "She was doing the best she could with what she knew. But she was exhausted and her children and fam...

What is spirituality? Am I doing it right? What does it look or feel like? Who decides? Episode 179 rounds out the intro of our theme with an exploration of James Finley's idea: "The greatest teacher of God's presence in our life is our life." Cynthia and Susan discuss the difference between communication and communion, finding points of connection in our daily experiences, and identifying and/or...

Like flowers in the cracks of a sidewalk, women's spirituality has had to work its way around and through thousands of years of religious beliefs and practices established and maintained by and for men. "I have stopped trying to make my life look spiritually acceptable to men. Men have very specific criteria for what spirituality is, based on the reality that men have been the only ones writing re...

"There is room to honor and hold space for the precious and the meaningful even as we evolve in our beliefs, our homes, and our lives. It's okay to bring some things with you." These wise words from writer Sarah Bessey help shape the conversation of this Season 8 opener. Everyone who's moved knows it can be hard to decide what to toss and what to keep. Latter-day Saint women may find it challengin...

In this short bonus episode, Susan and Cynthia look ahead to the upcoming season of podcast conversations. Season 8 will center on Latter-day Saint women digging and drawing from our individual spiritual wells. Hope you'll join us!

In this bonus episode, Cynthia and Susan revisit part of an earlier discussion exploring the idea of Latter-day Saint women's complicity in our own marginalization. Recent events have once again highlighted ways women may be the biggest obstacle to achieving greater parity of roles within the organization. It's still an itchy topic with no easy answers. This conversation is a call for women to sup...

On March 17, 2024 the Church broadcast a Worldwide Relief Society Devotional featuring remarks from the RS General Presidency and President Nelson. In this bonus episode, Cynthia and Susan discuss some of the messages delivered and the social media outpouring from Latter-day Saint women in response.

Some topics come up in these podcast conversations again and again, and that gets our attention. They frustrate us but also feel like obvious opportunities: areas where the church we love could take a step forward, and even small changes might make a big difference. In Episode 173, Cynthia and Susan call out a few of their frustrations and imagine possible responses that would feel like real progr...

Talk a lot about guilt and shame and eventually, you'll probably crave a hefty dose of grace! The conversation in Episode 172 is just that. Cynthia and Susan focus on challenges Latter-day Saints might have decoupling works and grace. Is it possible accepting grace actually requires more faith than depending on our own good works? How might pivoting toward grace propel us forward? Good news spoile...

In Episode 171, Susan and Cynthia continue their discussion with therapist C.A. Larson about guilt and shame. Where are they coming from? What are some specific ways these emotions might affect Latter-day Saint women, and how can we recognize and work through them in healthy ways?

"The most liberating process is to realize that no one's expectations for my life matter but my own," says therapist C.A. Larson. In Episode 170, she joins Cynthia and Susan for the first part of a discussion about guilt and shame. What's the difference between these two emotions? How do they help or hinder our growth and progress? And what tools can we use to manage them in healthy ways, and move...