Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley
Asynchrony Podcast
A podcast featuring regular discussions between a bleeding-heart liberal and a three-time Trump voter. We explore where our perspectives diverge and where they come together. If you are expecting name calling and acrimony, this might not be for you. If, however, you want to better understand the divisions that are causing so much stress in our world today, then you might feel right at home. Subscribe today to join the conversation and help us be a part of the solution rather than a reason for the problem.
Author
Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley
Category
Podcast website
Latest episode
Jul 7, 2026
Where to listen?
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Episodes
Episode 23 - Orwell's 1984 - A Two-Layer Analysis 07.07.2026 1:17:16
In this episode, Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley explore the structural and aesthetic layers of societal systems through the lens of Orwell's 1984, using their innovative two-layer analytical framework. They discuss how totalization, power dynamics, and epistemological humility shape our understanding of society and the importance of recognizing structural patterns to prevent dystopian outcomes. Cha...
Episode 22 - The Bottom Line - Putting It All Together 30.06.2026 1:23:21
In this episode, Dean and Kevin explore the development of a comprehensive analytical framework based on the two-level theory of organizations. They discuss how this tool can be used to diagnose societal, political, and organizational dynamics by examining the aesthetic and structural layers, totalization, and cycle phases. The conversation aims to provide a method for objective analysis to better...
Episode 21 - Shared Fears, Hidden Truths - Exposing the Layers 23.06.2026 1:13:09
In this episode, Dean and Kevin explore the two-layer theory of organizations, societal facade, and the importance of cross-ideological dialogue. They discuss how fears drive political and organizational behaviors, the cyclical nature of societal totalization, and practical ways to foster understanding and accountability. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Engagement with Audience 02:11 Exploring the...
Episode 20 - The Hidden Layer - Aesthetic vs. Structural 16.06.2026 1:26:56
This episode explores the deep structural dynamics that underpin organizations and societies, focusing on the concepts of totalization, the structural and aesthetic layers, and how these influence political and social systems. It emphasizes the importance of understanding the true causes behind societal issues and how to resist totalization for healthier, more accountable institutions.
Episode 19 - We Are one - Sharing the Keys 09.06.2026 1:06:54
In this episode, Kevin and Dean explore the deep psychological and philosophical roots of societal division, emphasizing how moral frameworks shape our perceptions and conflicts. They highlight the importance of recognizing that both sides of the political spectrum are necessary for a balanced society, and discuss how framing and social norms influence behavior and unrest.
Building Bridges with Zachary Elwood 04.06.2026 1:17:53
In this episode, we explore the roots, mechanisms, and potential solutions for the toxic polarization plaguing society today. Zachary Elwood, a former professional poker player turned polarization researcher and author, shares deep insights into the nature of conflict, the importance of understanding narratives, and practical ways to foster civil discourse. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Toxic Pol...
Episode 18 - Which Reality Is Real? The Five Perceptual Asymmetries 02.06.2026 1:11:04
This episode explores the deep divisions in perception and ideology, focusing on moral frameworks, cultural shifts, and the asymmetries in political reality. Hosts Dean Bagley and Kevin Shively analyze how different lenses shape our understanding of society, power, and free speech. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Podcast Growth 01:02 Understanding Different Realities 03:01 Defining Our Milieu 05:5...
Episode 17: It's a Cult! The Problem of Totalizing Ideologies 26.05.2026 1:20:56
This episode explores the nature of in-group and out-group dynamics, totalizing ideologies, and how they contribute to societal polarization. Hosts Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley analyze psychological, social, and philosophical frameworks to understand and counteract divisive groupthink. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Overview of Cult Dynamics 01:08 The Misuse of the Term 'Cult' 02:54 In-Group vs....
Episode 16: Addressing the Elephant - How to Talk About COVID 19.05.2026 1:13:38
In this episode, Dean and Kevin tackle the big elephant in the room. They explore how the COVID pandemic has exemplified societal divisions, motivation-driven reasoning, and the importance of epistemic humility. They emphasize constructing a shared analytical toolkit to disentangle truth from noise amid polarized narratives, especially around complex issues like the virus's origins, policy respons...
Episode 15: It Gets Real - Taking the First Bite of the Elephant 12.05.2026 1:16:20
In this episode, Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley explore how to approach contentious topics like COVID, vaccines, and societal division with discipline and a structured methodology. Their focus is on fostering honest dialogue, evaluating sources critically, and building a shared pathway to truth that bridges ideological divides. This is setting up the really difficult discussions coming in future we...
Episode 14: Moral Foundations - Seeking Shared Values 05.05.2026 1:13:18
This episode explores the deep roots of political division, moral judgments, and the importance of understanding different perspectives to bridge societal gaps. Dean and Kevin discuss Jonathan Haidt's Moral Foundations Theory, the impact of information bubbles, and strategies for constructive dialogue. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Asynchronous Conversations 01:51 Navigating Political Divides 05:...
Episode 13: It's war! Silencing the Culture War Cannons 28.04.2026 1:10:38
The conversation delves into the engagement and feedback received by the podcast, the turning point in the podcast's content, the origin and etymology of culture war and identity politics, the impact of counterculture and division, the concept of duality and moral judgment, the dialectic and Kantian concept, the shift from policy focus to identity focus, the corrosion of democracy, and the role of...
Episode 12: IDing the IDW - Resuscitating The Englightenment 21.04.2026 1:08:12
In this episode, Dean and Kevin delve into the complexities of the political and cultural landscape, discussing how institutions, identity, and free speech shape our society. They explore the ideas behind the Intellectual Dark Web, the Overton window, and the importance of embracing diverse perspectives for genuine understanding and progress.
Episode 11: Take On the Establishment 14.04.2026 1:10:52
In this episode, we explore the concept of the establishment, its various vectors, and its relationship with populism and populist movements. We analyze how power structures operate, influence culture, and how understanding these dynamics can help foster better communication and participation.
Episode 10: Me vs. We 07.04.2026 1:15:32
In this episode, Dean and Kevin explore the deep questions surrounding socialism, capitalism, power structures, and individual versus collective liberty. Their conversation disentangles common misconceptions, examines historical influences, and considers what a balanced society might look like. Whether you're interested in political philosophy, societal architecture, or just seeing familiar debate...
Episode 9: By Any Other Name 31.03.2026 1:14:35
This conversation explores the complexities of political terminology, societal structures, and the importance of nuanced dialogue in understanding issues like socialism, capitalism, and group identity. Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley delve into historical contexts, psychological triggers, and the need for honest, open conversations to bridge ideological divides.
Episode 8: Are You a Fascist? 24.03.2026 1:10:13
In this episode of the Asynchrony Podcast, hosts Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley explore the complexities of political deliberation, partisanship, and the impact of ideological labels on public discourse. They discuss the role of power structures in society, the nature of centralization, and the importance of understanding the language of political identity. The conversation delves into the definiti...
What have we wrought? 19.03.2026 31:27
Why should you listen to this podcast? Dean and Kevin provide a detailed explanation of what is hoped to be accomplished by the podcast. This discussion highlights what has been learned over the course of the first dozen weeks of conversations and where things go from here.
Episode 7: I'm Good, You're Evil 17.03.2026 1:03:39
This episode explores the dynamics of political division, cognitive biases, and the importance of understanding different perspectives to foster meaningful dialogue. Hosts Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley delve into how misinformation, identity threats, and algorithmic manipulation contribute to societal polarization.
Episode 6: The Identity Trap 10.03.2026 1:16:26
In this conversation, Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley explore the intricate relationship between personal identity, group dynamics, and political movements. They discuss how individual and group identities shape political opinions and behaviors, particularly in the context of movements like MAGA and the Tea Party. The dialogue emphasizes the importance of shared values, the impact of local governanc...
Episode 5: Identity Crisis 03.03.2026 1:11:53
In this episode of Asynchrony, Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley explore the complex relationship between identity and perspectives, particularly in the context of political division. They discuss how assigned and self-identities influence our views and interactions, the triggering of system one thinking by identity, and the impact of cultural identity on political conversations. The conversation delv...
Episode 4: This is a PsyOp 24.02.2026 1:14:40
In this conversation, Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley explore the complexities of conspiracy theories, focusing on the psychological and social factors that influence belief systems. They discuss the role of confirmation bias, the impact of partisanship, and the importance of understanding differing perspectives. The Flat Earth theory serves as a case study to illustrate how beliefs can become inter...
Is everything a PsyOp? 19.02.2026 3:42
In this preview for Episode 4, Dean and Kevin ask the question whether everything is a PsyOp and discuss the dangers of seeing everything as such.
Episode 3: The Earth is Flat 17.02.2026 1:17:19
In this conversation, Kevin Shively and Dean Bagley explore the complexities of conspiracy theories, focusing on the psychological and social factors that influence belief systems. They discuss the role of confirmation bias, the impact of partisanship, and the importance of understanding differing perspectives. The Flat Earth theory serves as a case study to illustrate how beliefs can become inter...
Next week: The Earth is Flat 12.02.2026 3:10
In episode 3 of the Asynchrony podcast, Dean and Kevin try to explain their goals for discussing conspiracy theories and conspiratorial thinking. They stress that it is not an attempt to try to prove specific theories as true or false or prove one side right or wrong, but to create a mutual framework that they both can use going forward to evaluate ideas and come to some kind of consensus on what...
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