Legal Talk Network
Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.
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Legal Talk Network
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Podcast website
Latest episode
Jul 8, 2026
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Episodes
You Catch More Judges With 'Honey' Than With Vinegar 25.06.2025 34:23
And the Supreme Court has a wild one. ----- Except those judges aren't going to like it when you catch them. Like the poor lawyer here who called a judge "honey" during oral argument and entered a spiral of no return. We also had a dramatic week at the Supreme Court, with Justice Gorsuch trying to start something with Justice Jackson and Justice Jackson shutting it right down, and Sam Alito using...
The Jerkstore Called, They're Not Running Out Of Lawyers 18.06.2025 33:42
Also, the role of bar associations in 2025. ----- According to a new survey, lawyers think their law firms are really tolerant of jerks. Are they right about that, or just overly sensitive? The DC Bar election ended in a blowout, but why? For all the complaining about some wild theories on social media, the simpler reason is that leading a bar association in 2025 means standing up to the administr...
So Long And Thanks For All The Bonuses 11.06.2025 33:11
Caving law firms experience exodus. ----- Paul Weiss fancied itself clever when it offered Trump pro bono payola in exchange for dropping an illegal executive order. Instead it keeps hemorrhaging senior lawyers with more departing to join the recent rainmaker spinoff and associates reportedly high on the new firm's wish list. While litigators are largely driving defections from surrender firms, at...
Sex Asteroids, Sleazebags, And Meme Police 04.06.2025 35:16
Quite the combination of words. ----- Lawsuit against former Texas SG alleges bizarre cosmic sex fetish. The administration made two significant changes to the judicial nomination process, firing the ABA from its neutral evaluator role and kicking the Federalist Society to the curb. The latter move came with an epic rant declaring Leonard Leo a sleazebag. Broken clocks and all. And Kash Patel lays...
Supreme Court Just Making It Up As It Goes Along 28.05.2025 38:14
From the administrative state to voting rights, they're just sort of winging it trying to reverse engineer results. ----- As Supreme Court season hits fever pitch, we're joined by Professor Leah Litman, author of Lawless: How the Supreme Court Runs on Conservative Grievance, Fringe Theories, and Bad Vibes, to discuss the nightmare we're facing. Elena Kagan took the opportunity to humiliate her col...
Are Those Seashells In Your Pocket Or Are You Just Threatening An Assassination? 21.05.2025 39:58
Seashellgate meets Surrendergate. ----- Since we're cursed to act as keepers of the flame to remind the legal community that several large law firms really did willingly sell out to the Trump administration, this week we discuss our columnist Vivia Chen's exploration of the unique impact of these moves on young lawyers learning early that Biglaw is more than happy to throw them under the bus. We a...
Bold Strategy Biglaw, Let's See If It Pays Off 14.05.2025 33:44
What if we just act like nothing happened? ----- Biglaw firms who gave in to Trump suffered a scathing 60 Minutes piece and key talent defections, so they've decided upon a new tactic: pretending they never made a deal at all! It does not appear to be working. Meanwhile, Justice David Souter died reminding everyone of an era when the federal judiciary cared more about the right answer than appeasi...
Biglaw Firms Fighting Trump Keep Winning, Capitulators Keep Losing 07.05.2025 31:10
It was a bad week to compromise your values. ----- Perkins Coie secured a permanent injunction against the Trump administration's retaliatory executive order. Meanwhile, firms that balked at putting up a fight against the illegal attacks have seen the White House drag them into police brutality cases and law schools start openly talking about students taking their talents elsewhere. And then the h...
Even Judges Aren't Safe In Trump's America 30.04.2025 27:03
The arrest of Wisconsin judge Hannah Dugan is straight outta dystopian fiction. But at least retired Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer still has faith in the system, which makes one of us. Speaking of the High Court, Justice Sam Alito's dissent would be laughable if he weren't so powerful.
Biglaw Brings In Big Bucks 23.04.2025 32:19
And the world continues to melt. ----- We've got key financial data from the top law firms and the takeaway is that it's good to be a big firm. The Am Law 100 this year revealed that more and more firms have joined the super rich and things look bright for Biglaw. Unless someone triggers a global depression or something. We also discuss what it means to be "bipartisan" in an environment where the...
Law School Ranking Chaos And Biglaw Trump Deals Turn Sour 16.04.2025 37:49
US News and World Report released its most recent law school rankings with a side of chaos, but the big takeaway is the scrambling and erosion of the "T14" as an organizing concept. Is it time to dismiss the rankings as arbitrary? At least until law schools agree to cooperate again. Also, Surrendergate continues and the "we'll do some pro bono for veterans" deal has turned dramatically, with the W...
Biglaw Surrender Fallout Continues 09.04.2025 30:11
And now we have a tracker for that! ----- After a few weeks of watching some law firms stand up to facially illegal demands from the Trump administration... and more law firms rapidly cave to those same demands, we put together a helpful tracker to keep clients, potential laterals, and law students fully aware of where firms currently stand. But we depend on you out there to keep us up-to-date! Me...
Fight Or Flight... The Biglaw Conundrum 02.04.2025 31:56
A great divide is developing. ----- Following the Paul Weiss surrender we discussed last week, Skadden preemptively followed suit agreeing to commit $100M in pro bono payola to the MAGA cause. Bringing to light some embarrassing email policies in the process. But other Biglaw firms showed a little more life, with Jenner & Block and WilmerHale suing the administration over its retaliatory executive...
Paul Weiss Waves The White Flag 26.03.2025 31:05
Courage seems to be in short supply in Biglaw. ----- Paul Weiss folded immediately in the face of Trump's threat, offering the president pro bono services and a retreat from DEI. For a firm that built its reputation on litigation, the move came as a surprise. A Skadden associate called upon the industry to develop a backbone. So she's not going to be working there any more. There are a lot of dumb...
Biglaw Struggling To Deal With Trump Chaos 19.03.2025 33:51
There's no escaping the administration's influence on the legal landscape. ----- The Trump administration continues its revenge tour against Biglaw, and Perkins Coie is fighting back. Through counsel at Williams & Connolly, Perkins delivered a scorching takedown of the administration's arbitrary retaliation against the firm, earning a partial TRO. Meanwhile, most of Biglaw remains silent. And if t...
John Roberts Realizes He Made A Huge Mistake 12.03.2025 31:25
ACB isn't having it. ----- Remember when Arrested Development made this a gag? John Roberts is living it out in real time as the president explains -- on national television -- that Roberts is a partisan hack. Amy Coney Barrett seems less excited about the prospect. Meanwhile, the administration is threatening law firms. The dean of one law school is stepping up. Also, what is this -- now former -...
Diddy Lawyer Decides He Gotta Move On 05.03.2025 34:16
And the new USNWR rankings are dealing with some crazy data. ----- We're not saying Diddy is an unsavory client, but we are saying Osama bin Laden's lawyer just noped out of continuing to represent him. We also got some limited insight into the US News rankings and there's some potential tumult at the top. And Judge Reyes had to blow up a hapless DOJ lawyer trying to defend the indefensible and th...
Who Needs Caselaw Anyway? 26.02.2025 34:08
The new federal deficit is the government's research deficit. ----- Elon Musk's aimless cost-cutting escapades turn to the SEC where DOGE slashed their Westlaw access because no one over there is smart enough to know how legal research works. Apparently now is an opportune time to start committing securities fraud! Speaking of aimless, former judge Alex Kozinski penned a meandering opinion piece a...
Someone Needs To Come Get These Junior Associates 19.02.2025 35:13
'Nah, you do that' is not a response that keeps lawyers employed. ----- Imagine the audacity it takes for a rookie lawyer to refuse to do the work assigned by a midlevel or senior associate. And expect to keep their job? The story of a beleaguered midlevel asking for help with an unruly junior refusing to work has us wondering if the kids are not all right. Also the administration starts calling f...
Insurer Spending On Lawyers Rather Than, You Know, Healthcare 12.02.2025 33:35
And Biglaw begins adjusting to Trump era. ------ If United Healthcare considered spending more on a cancer patient and less on lawyers to sue doctors for pointing out they didn't spend on the cancer patient they wouldn't be getting so thoroughly dragged online. While the mockery they're getting is funny, this underscores the dangerous weaponization of defamation (and also copyright) laws, allowing...
400th Episode Spectacular 05.02.2025 49:15
Getting the band back together. ----- A jumbo sized episode this week as Thinking Like A Lawyer celebrates its 400th episode with a look back at some big changes in law firms, law schools, and the courts that have unfolded over its last 10 years of podcasting. Original co-host Elie Mystal from The Nation joins the gang to share his thoughts. He's not particularly optimistic.
First Thing We Do, Let's Fire All The Lawyers 29.01.2025 37:00
Government lawyer purge creates chaos ----- Trump administration slashes jobs for young lawyers months before they officially start sparking a scramble for jobs. The Justice Department followed up that news by terminating career DOJ lawyers for the sin of having worked on Trump's criminal cases. One Biglaw firm informs its associates that they're not getting their full bonuses based on office atte...
Tom Goldstein Should've Stuck With High Stakes Go Fish 22.01.2025 33:08
You've got to know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold 'em. ------ Supreme Court litigator Tom Goldstein, co-founder of SCOTUSblog, is on the wrong side of the law facing a multi-count indictment related to the alleged fallout of a hard-core gambling lifestyle. All while routinely arguing multiple cases in front of the Supreme Court. Legen...wait for it...dary. Also Proskauer proves that every ros...
Back To The Office Blues 15.01.2025 29:47
Attorneys yearn for the commute. ----- Sullivan & Cromwell are bringing attorneys back to the office five days a week. The stated reason is to mirror "normal business hours" which is a cruel joke in an abnormal business hour industry. Democratic Party superlawyer Marc Elias faces an uprising at his firm after staff proposed a mandatory arbitration agreement despite many of his top clients openly c...
Judges Decide Clarence Thomas Was Just Confused When He Didn't Report All That Money 08.01.2025 35:03
Statutes are hard. ----- Apparently, Clarence Thomas just didn't understand how to read the nearly 50-year-old statute requiring him to report massively expensive gifts. That's the Judicial Conference's official take in a new letter to the Senate panel looking into the ethical cesspool. The letter becomes public just as Chief Justice Roberts releases his annual report asserting that most criticism...
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