Legal Talk Network
Above the Law - Thinking Like a Lawyer
Thinking Like A Lawyer is a podcast featuring Above the Law's Joe Patrice, Kathryn Rubino, and Chris Williams. Each episode, the hosts will take a topic experienced and enjoyed by regular people, and shine it through the prism of a legal framework. This will either reveal an awesome rainbow of thought, or a disorienting kaleidoscope of issues. Either way, it should be fun.
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Legal Talk Network
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Podcast website
Latest episode
Jul 8, 2026
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Episodes
Closing Out The Year With Mergers And Attacks On The Rule Of Law 24.12.2025 33:01
Ho ho ho...gan Lovells merging. ----- A critical analysis of the best variety of Coca-Cola product gives way to a conversation about law this week. Cadwalader ends its tumultuous year -- involving a Trump administration capitulation and a series of defections -- with a big quasi-transatlantic merger announcement with cross-Pond Hogan Lovells. Christmas came early -- to the extent anyone thinks of...
At Least The Robots In The Coming War Against Humans Will Understand War Crimes 17.12.2025 36:02
If you want 2025 in a nutshell, it doesn't get much better than a blundering Secretary of Defense bragging that the Pentagon bought an expensive, bespoke AI bot and it immediately started calling out the Trump administration for committing war crimes. As the legal industry ventures into a hallucinatory AI frontier, it's worth remembering that sometimes the bots outperform the human lawyers. At the...
This Is Why We Have Bar Exams 10.12.2025 33:14
And the DOJ continues to be a hot mess. ----- Kim Kardashian is trying to enter the legal profession without a law school education. The bar exam is a deeply flawed and largely unnecessary test, but the best case for having some kind of licensing exam is to make sure anyone taking an alternative path to a law license meets the minimum requirements for a lawyer. Meanwhile, the Trump administration...
A Bad Week For Trump's Fake U.S. Attorneys 03.12.2025 35:17
And a shorter summer associate program. ----- While most of us celebrated Thanksgiving, some of Trump's phony U.S. Attorneys were the real turkeys. First, a conservative leaning panel of the Eleventh Circuit affirmed the million dollar sanctions against Donald Trump and the parking garage lawyer he claims to have running the District of New Jersey. Then his Eastern District cosplaying prosecutor m...
Bonus Season Begins In Earnest 26.11.2025 33:57
Bonuses and botched prosecutions. ----- Bonus season is underway, and Biglaw firms are lining up to reward associates for a year's worth of effort. The market scale -- unless some firm breaks rank and crashes the party -- tracks last year, which can be a bit anticlimactic, but with the economy possibly resting on the precipice of recession, this was probably all we could hope for. Also, we discuss...
Maybe The Legal Industry Has Just Lost All Sense Of Shame 19.11.2025 31:38
But seriously, what would be a good legal dominatrix name? ------ Biglaw recruiting director out after racist rant goes public. A squabble between lawyers and their former firm presents important lessons on document management, but we spend most of the time wondering about the best legally themed dominatrix names. And we talk about Paul Weiss getting heckled at the New York Bar Foundation awards g...
If The DOJ Fails Another Time, They Win A Free Sandwich 12.11.2025 31:28
And Kirkland tries a little tenderness. FedSoc does not. ----- The news that Kirkland had to teach its lawyers how to stop being mean to the private equity industry is incredibly funny. We're not saying Kirkland is getting a bad rap here, but when did corporate clients become such fragile snowflakes? The Federalist Society's annual meeting brought together the leading minds of the Trump legal move...
A Riot By Any Other Name... 05.11.2025 39:30
DOJ punishing lawyers, the future of the billable hour, and dark times for public interest work. ----- We talk about the DOJ lawyers suspended by the White House for calling January 6 a riot in a sentencing memo. and the conversation veers down a rabbit hole about the proper role of pardons. For years, the billable hour seemed like the cockroach of law firm management, but after surviving numerous...
Dispatches From The Collapse Of The Rule Of Law 29.10.2025 38:27
And a Biglaw firm seeks help while an in-house attorney blows up her career. ----- Catching up with the slice of the conservative legal movement who have stared into the moral abyss of the Trump administration and recoiled in horror. The Society for the Rule of Law held its annual summit and while many attendees voiced clear-eyed opposition, some continued to grapple with the cognitive dissonance...
No, Your Honor, I Didn't Call You That, I Was Talking About, Um, Bundt Cake 22.10.2025 35:35
Also frivolous lawsuits and the insidiousness of dishonest analysis. ----- Appeals court decides that some things are best left unsaid. And among those things are calling your judge the c-word. Just so we're clear, even though this was over Zoom, we're not talking about "cat." After trying to bully Michigan Law Review through litigation, the anti-DEI publicity hounds at FASORP have dropped the cas...
On Campus Hiring Is Broken, And This Isn't Helping 15.10.2025 38:08
Just in time for the AI slop to take over. ----- Some law firms are handing out recruiting entertainment budgets to law students. While we don't fault law students some sweet walking around money, placing that power in the hands of students highlights the breakdown in the law school recruiting process and a real risk of baking more bias into hiring. Why has Kirkland memory holes its incoming partn...
Is This The Beginning Of The End For The Bar Exam? 08.10.2025 35:19
One can only hope. ----- For a long time, the bar exam seemed like the nasty habit that the legal profession just couldn't quit. But there's finally some progress on that front, with Utah unveiling a new alternative pathway to licensure that values experience and the skills that an actual practitioner needs. We also check in on Cadwalader, where the firm brings on a new co-manager while taking som...
All The Cool Kids Are Passing The Bar, All The Cooley Kids... Not As Much 01.10.2025 30:20
Biglaw capitulators face new challenge and James Comey gets indicted. ----- Perennially embattled Cooley Law School once again called out by the ABA over sagging bar passage rates. The school has been out of compliance with ABA standards since 2020, and now finds itself on probation with its accreditor. The last time something like this happened, Cooley sued the ABA into relenting. History is a fl...
Nothin' Says Lovin' Like A Benchslap 24.09.2025 31:18
Law firm fires lawyer over Kirk comments and law school announces new scholarships. ----- Perkins Coie cut ties with an attorney over Charlie Kirk comments on social media. The remarks were measured and reasonable, but the firm is still fighting the Trump administration in court and -- seemingly -- does not want any distractions or mere appearance of bias. But is that a worthy excuse? A Pillsbury...
A Tale Of Two Supreme Court Book Tours 17.09.2025 30:20
Compare and contrast as ACB and Sotomayor ride (media) circuit. ----- Amy Coney Barrett and Sonia Sotomayor are both hitting the talk shows and it's highlighting how awkward the nation's relationship with the Supreme Court really is. Barrett went on Fox and accurately stated that the Constitution prohibits Trump running for a third term. Then the host offered a "wink wink" prompt and she started b...
The Fundamental Dishonesty Of The Supreme Court 10.09.2025 36:30
Law school is more expensive than it used to be... but barely more expensive! ----- Federal judges have had to deal with more and more threats from conservatives whipped into up by the Trump administration rhetoric blasting judges blocking illegal executive orders, only to be unceremoniously overruled by the Supreme Court. Last week, multiple judges called out the Republican justices for issuing u...
DOJ Has Egg On Its Face 03.09.2025 28:12
The Department of Justice is having a rough time getting those trumped up charges (pun intended) from the fed's takeover of D.C. to stick. Plus lawyer getting slammed for trying to use opposing counsel's premature baby as leverage. And infamous law professor Amy Wax has her legal case against University of Pennsylvania thrown out of court, but it's unlikely to be the end of her antics.
2400 Reasons To Brush Up That Resume 27.08.2025 35:12
We know where some of those pro bono payola hours are going. ----- Be prepared to be on the clock a lot longer at King & Spalding, where the firm has introduced a 2400 hour “productive” time target. In other words, attorneys will have to figure out how to describe 2400 hours worth of work to the firm’s billing software every year. This seems to follow the overarching retreat from the work from hom...
The Sandwich Is Mightier Than The Sword 20.08.2025 33:14
Law firms get some worrying numbers from last quarter. ----- The new D.C. folk hero who threw a sandwich at Trump's surge publicity stunt turned out to be a DOJ attorney. He's been fired because this administration will not stand for disrespecting law enforcement... unless they're trying to kill Capitol police officers on January 6. Meanwhile, the legal industry enjoyed a muted quarter. Are they p...
Missing: Biglaw's Summer Bonus Matches 13.08.2025 30:50
Milbank delighted with special summer bonuses, ranging from $6-25 thousand, for associates. And that's great for them! But where are all the matches? We have a theory on when associates at other firms will be able to cash in. There was some fishiness (now resolved) with the constitution on congress's website. Which, honestly, should be more shocking than it is. Biglaw partner lateral moves are all...
The Bar Exam Death Drive Becomes Dangerously Literal 06.08.2025 30:27
And Coldplay and pierogis. ----- A woman went into cardiac arrest during the New York bar exam. Thankfully, the administrators responded swiftly. JUST KIDDING! They yelled at other examinees to be quiet and keep working on the test while they deliberated about calling for emergency assistance, according to multiple witnesses. The woman survived, but the bar exam's unwillingness to admit its mistak...
Lawyers Getting Really High On AI Hallucinations 30.07.2025 32:56
Get it together, people! ----- It was a very bad week for lawyers and hallucinations. A federal judge had to withdraw an opinion with fake cites. One Biglaw firm fired a partner over an invented case, while another firm got tossed off a case over AI shenanigans. And the scribe of Ashurbanipal got mercilessly trolled by a judge pointing out that his fake AI cite apology included... another fake cit...
Who Knew Biting Other Lawyers Was Frowned Upon? 16.07.2025 38:14
Lots to chew on this week. ----- Biglaw summer associate let go after biting upwards of 15 people at the firm. Now that sounds crazy, but that's because it is. We also discuss a lawyer's biting response to a demand letter. A lot of the professional decorum advocates objected to the tone, but at a certain point how does the profession pushback against aggressive and unfounded demands without public...
The Hallucinations Are Winning 09.07.2025 40:35
Law firm mergers and John Roberts brags for the crowd. ----- Has the era of the mid-sized firm come to an end? Probably not, but with increasing nationalization and the financial pressures that go along with it, mid-sized firms are consolidating and a valuable segment (and price point!) may be lost. Lawyers have faced a steady stream of sanctions for citing fake cases generated by AI, but now a ju...
Supreme Court A Hot Mess 02.07.2025 38:16
The Term ended with a whole lot of nonsense. ----- Taking a sledgehammer where a chisel -- or better yet nothing -- would do, the Supreme Court nixed injunctions it didn't like by striking down the power to issue universal injunctions totally and addressed schools teaching that gay people exist by expanding strict scrutiny to parents lodging religious complaints. But at least they whined and took...
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