Disarming Leviathan Podcast

The Bible contains disturbing stories of conquest, judgment, and violence. How should Christians make sense of these passages, especially when biblical texts are being paired with images of missiles, military campaigns, and calls to destroy contemporary enemies? In this episode, biblical scholar Dru Johnson helps us approach these texts within the world of the Bible itself. Dru argues that Scriptu...

What does it mean to follow Jesus when political leaders invoke Christianity to justify power, domination, and violence? In this episode, Matthew D. Taylor returns to the podcast to discuss his new book, Defying Tyrants . Matthew argues that Jesus was neither politically disengaged nor interested in seizing Caesar’s power for himself. Instead, Jesus modeled a radically different politics, one that...

What do we do with the Psalms that ask God to judge, punish, and even destroy enemies? And what happens when Christians take those prayers and use them to justify violence against political opponents, other nations, or people they believe threaten America? In this episode, biblical theologian Trevor Laurence helps us understand the imprecatory Psalms within the larger story of Scripture. Rather th...

The Bible contains a lot of violence. But what are Christians supposed to do with stories of conquest, divine judgment, and commands to destroy Israel’s enemies, especially when those texts are used to justify American military power or Christian Nationalist politics? In this episode, Old Testament scholar Matthew Lynch helps us slow down and read these difficult passages more carefully. He argues...

Note: We experienced some technical difficulties during this recording. We cleaned it up as best we could, but you may hear an occasional echo. What happens after Christian nationalism begins to lose its grip? In this episode, Soong-Chan Rah argues that defeating a political movement is not enough because the deeper narratives that gave it life can simply take new forms. Drawing on theology, histo...

Why does the Old Testament contain so much violence, and what does it reveal about the character of God? In this episode, Charlie Trimm helps us wrestle with some of Scripture’s most difficult passages, from Joshua’s conquest of Canaan to the prophetic calls for justice. Rather than presenting a God driven by wrath alone, Charlie shows how these texts consistently portray a God committed to justic...

The book of Revelation is often treated as a roadmap for the end times, a justification for violence, or a source of fear. But what if its central message is something entirely different? In this episode, David Mathewson helps us read Revelation through its own imagery, showing how the slain Lamb, not the beast, stands at the center of the story. Together we explore divine justice, the symbolic na...

Violence in the Bible often leaves believers disoriented—how do we reconcile the raw, gritty realism of biblical stories with our understanding of a loving God? Andy Judd unpacks the genre, history, and cultural context behind biblically violent moments, revealing that these accounts depict a world that's "not the way it’s meant to be." He explains how the Bible’s violence reflects real-world conf...

In this conversation, Dan Hawk explores the history and theology behind Manifest Destiny—and why its legacy still shapes American identity today. Drawing a sharp connection between U.S. expansion narratives and the conquest themes of Scripture, Dan argues that confronting the painful truths of colonization, dispossession, and white supremacy is essential to justice and reconciliation. This episode...

What can America’s political and religious polarization learn from the history of Northern Ireland? In this episode, David Montgomery (”Monty”) reflects on decades of sectarian conflict and explains how fear, political identity, and religious symbolism became deeply intertwined in his own country. Drawing on his work with university students across Europe, Monty offers a thoughtful warning about t...

Was the United States founded as a Christian nation? In this episode, historian Warren Throckmorton separates popular myths from the historical record, exploring what America's founders actually believed about Christianity, religious liberty, and the relationship between church and state. Together, we examine why the founders intentionally created a government without an established religion, how...

Most political debates skirt the core question: What does it mean to live as a faithful outpost of God's kingdom today? Michael Rhodes challenges us to root our political engagement in Scripture's vision of justice, love, and humility, emphasizing that biblical teachings expand our options—beyond the simplistic slogans of modern politics. You'll discover how Scripture illuminates the role of God's...

What happens when a theology of hierarchy, control, and male authority moves from the margins into the mainstream? In this episode, Margaret Bronson shares her firsthand experience growing up in a patriarchal Christian Nationalist movement that emphasized male dominance, rigid gender roles, homeschooling, and authoritarian leadership. Drawing on both personal story and historical analysis, Margare...

What happens when the symbols commonly associated with Christian Nationalism mean something entirely different to the people displaying them? In this episode, Caleb sits down with Arizona State University professor, veteran, and pastor John Mark Sianghio to explore how Christian Nationalism is experienced and expressed within immigrant communities, particularly among Filipino-American churches. Dr...

For many Americans, conversations about refugees happen at the level of politics, policy, and headlines. In this episode, Clint Leavitt invites us into a different starting place: the stories of real people. Drawing from his friendship with a Congolese refugee and the research behind his book Cockroaches, God, Death and Mangos , Clint shares how personal relationships transformed his understanding...

In this insightful interview, Mary Kaech from Phoenix Refugee Connections shares the history, current challenges, and opportunities in refugee resettlement in the U.S., emphasizing the importance of community involvement, faith, and understanding. Discover how refugees contribute to local communities and how Christians can actively participate in welcoming and supporting their neighbors. https://p...

In this in-depth interview, Matthew Soerens discusses the global refugee crisis, U.S. immigration policies, and the biblical perspective on caring for refugees and immigrants. He highlights recent policy changes, the economic and moral implications, and offers practical ways for evangelicals and citizens to advocate for humane immigration reform. Chapters 00:00 Understanding the Refugee Crisis 01:...

Daniel Yang discusses the significance of Refugee Day, the history and current state of refugee resettlement in the U.S., and the role of the church in welcoming and supporting refugees. He shares personal stories, historical context, and practical ways for individuals and churches to engage compassionately. Chapters 00:00 Understanding Refugee Awareness and Its Importance 02:18 Personal Stories:...

This June, we will publish a special series of interviews related to World Refugee Awareness Month. Please consider rating and reviewing the Disarming Leviathan podcast. It helps others find our work! Get full access to Disarming Leviathan at disarmingleviathan.substack.com/subscribe

Who do you want to see on the pod? We are recording the next season of the Disarming Leviathan podcast! Let us know who you want to see on the pod in the comment section. Use the contact form at disarmingleviathan.com . Calling all Pastors! Join us for the J29 Coalition Cohort, starting August 2026. Learn more at J29Coalition.com . Get full access to Disarming Leviathan at disarmingleviathan.subst...

We are in between seasons of the Disarming Leviathan podcast (mainly so I can finish my Doctoral project at Fuller Seminary), but I wanted to post this episode I did with the Surge Network . My friend Aaron Dailey and I talk about a variety of things, including how we have seen pastoral ministry change in Phoenix over the last two decades. I share some of the lessons I’ve learned, the growing anxi...

In this episode of Disarming Leviathan , Caleb sits down with Pastor David Ruybalid Ruybalid to examine the growing narrative that a “revival” is underway—especially among young men returning to church. While acknowledging real shifts in generational engagement, David offers a careful theological and pastoral critique of revival language that prioritizes numbers, emotion, or cultural momentum over...

Many Christians struggle with the violence and conquest language of the Old Testament—especially texts like Joshua that seem at odds with the way of Jesus. In this episode, biblical scholar Helen Paynter helps us read these passages within the unfolding story of Scripture, showing how themes like warfare and power are transformed at the cross. Together, we explore why using these texts to justify...

In this episode of the Disarming Leviathan podcast, biblical scholar Dr. Dru Johnson pushes back against the misuse of Old Testament law by culture warriors and partisan tribalists who treat the Torah as a ready-made tool for coercive governance. Instead, he presents biblical law as a formational guide—not a rigid codebook—for shaping the moral and social imagination of God’s people. Johnson expla...

In this episode, pastor and author Zach W. Lambert confronts the weaponization of Scripture in American public life and church culture. Drawing from his book Better Ways to Read the Bible , he outlines how harmful interpretive “lenses” have been used to justify everything from Christian nationalism to slavery to spiritual abuse. Rather than abandoning Scripture, Lambert calls Christians to reclaim...