The Problem with Punishment

Intimate partner violence (IPV) is still far too common. It's important to end IPV, on that many of us agree. So is punishing people who hurt their intimate partners going to end IPV? What can we do instead? For our final episode of Season One, we discuss with a number of women working in the movement: Judith Clark at the Survivors Justice Project, Kassiel Gonzalez at VIP Mujeres, Purvi Shah and D...

We recorded and edited this episode in spring and summer 2025, during a horrifying effort to punish immigrants. There are ICE raids in Home Depot parking lots. Masked ICE agents are grabbing people who are attending their immigration hearings. Anti-immigrant rhetoric, which has been growing over decades, is reaching a brutal new turning point. We find ourselves asking, what more can we do to keep...

Pregnancy is a place of both power and vulnerability. For much of human experience, power and decision-making when it came to pregnancy was in the hands of women. It was an issue of health and healing. But no more. These days, we're substituting legal intrusions for health care. Between the racist War on Drugs and the Dobbs decision, there are a lot of things pregnant people can be punished for. I...

Homicide is a horrifying act of harm. It's an action with permanent consequences. Our stories of homicide almost always define justice as punishment instead of healing. But punishment doesn't bring back the dead. It doesn’t promote healing for families who lose loved ones. And often punishment creates cycles of violence instead of interrupting them. Our host Kathleen lost her brother to homicide w...

Shelter is one of our most basic needs - and an international human right. Yet millions of Americans are denied their right to housing. This includes tens of thousands of New Yorkers who have been incarcerated. This makes it even more difficult for them to start anew upon release.  In this episode, we speak with Ashanti, a young woman who experienced incarceration and housing insecurity. Reve...

Thanks to all our listeners so far who have shared comments or feedback. We've got full transcripts and useful links for the first five episodes at beyondpunishment.org/problem-with-punishment . We're not releasing an episode on July 1. It's "Sick of ICE" day -- take steps if you can, to be in solidarity with communities under attack.  We'll be back with more episodes in July. To reach us via...

Too often, we define long prison sentences as "justice." But when we define incarceration as justice, it creates a big problem. Parole, or the end of a person's incarceration, can feel like we're losing out on justice. I know well the feelings connected to this. I have my own family's experience with homicide. And I have talked and listened to many other folks affected by homicide. For this episod...

Stories of child abuse or the death a child shock us, and they should. But how much do you know about the systems that are supposed to prevent this? We talk to several moms who went through New York's "child welfare system" wringer. They decided to do something better to support parents and became part of the community at Rise. These moms and our other guests talk about why our "family policing" s...

We can all agree that all the children and adults in a school should feel safe and should actually be safe. But when violence or the threat of violence happens, how do we get safer schools? In this episode, we explore how students want–and are creating–safer school for themselves without relying on punishment. We visit Martín Urbach and the Circle Keepers, a restorative justice and community organ...

For this episode, we visit the wondrous folks who run OnPoint NYC, an overdose prevention center. They base their work in the principles of harm reduction, which we explore in this episode. And we also talk to Toni Smith, the New York State Director at Drug Policy Alliance. Together they explain the futility and danger of trying to control addiction by punishing people for drug use. Full transcrip...

Gun violence is horrifying, and each life lost to a gun is a tragedy. Most interventions involve creating punishments for gun possession or use. That can sound like common sense, but in reality, it's a racialized practice. And it's not been that effective for keeping people safe from guns. Are there better ways to prevent gun violence? For this episode, we go to Queens to talk with the fine folks...

This is the Problem with Punishment Podcast – Spoiler Alert! The problem with punishment is it doesn’t work. But the bigger problem is that we turn to punishment in every aspect of our lives. From our families to our neighborhoods, our boroughs, our city, we keep expecting punishment to make things better when for the most part, it makes whatever problem we’re addressing worse. Every time punishme...