The Long Game with Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer

Anne Applebaum, Pulitzer Prize-winning author and staff writer at The Atlantic, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to discuss how far-right ideology and private profit have become intertwined in the Trump administration’s approach to the world; the subject of her new cover story for The Atlantic.  They also examine the opaque U.S. oil arrangements in Venezuela, the campaign for political influ...

PHOTO CREDIT China experts Jessica Chen Weiss, David M. Lampton Professor of China Studies at Johns Hopkins SAIS, and Julian Gewirtz, fellow at Harvard’s Belfer Center and senior research scholar at Columbia University, join Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer ahead of Chinese President Xi Jinping’s state visit to Washington. What does Xi hope to secure from President Trump—and what should the United Stat...

Julia Curlee, a former CIA analyst and acting senior director at the National Security Council, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to explain why she believes America’s intelligence system is being weakened from within. Curlee also discusses her experience briefing Vice President Mike Pence and why she left government after nearly 20 years. After the interview, Then to argue for and against reachin...

25 Years After 9/11: Admiral McRaven’s Warning for America Retired Admiral William H. McRaven, former commander of U.S. Special Operations Command and Joint Special Operations Command, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer as the country marks the 25th anniversary of 9/11. McRaven recalls watching the attacks while recovering from a parachute accident, and later planning and executing the operation th...

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent says the U.S. is entering “the endgame” with Iran, launching what he calls an “economic D-Day.” Closer to home, U.S.-Canada trade talks have collapsed after Prime Minister Mark Carney rejected Washington’s latest demands.  Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer examine whether Operation Economic Outcast can change Iran’s calculus, why China holds the key, and why Canadia...

Acclaimed investigative journalist and New Yorker staff writer Patrick Radden Keefe joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to discuss his new book, London Falling.  They discuss London’s dirty-money economy, “Say Nothing” and the unfinished business of the Good Friday Agreement, whether the CIA helped spread the Scorpions’ “Wind of Change” behind the Iron Curtain, what a year inside the Pentagon t...

Polish Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Radosław “Radek” Sikorski joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to assess Europe’s security at a moment of growing strain in the transatlantic alliance. They discuss whether Europe can deter Russia with a reduced US military presence, how NATO should respond to Russian sabotage and possible false-flag operations, and whether America can still be counte...

Zelensky just fired his defense minister, his top general, and his prime minister in a single reshuffle — and thousands of Ukrainians poured into the streets. Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer unpack what's really driving it: a generational war over how to fight, Zelensky's wariness of rivals who outshine him, and a reckoning over corruption in military procurement. They trace how Ukraine's homegrown dr...

Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to discuss the security of the 2026 midterm elections — just a day before President Trump’s primetime Thursday address, expected to focus in part on “election integrity.” They discuss Trump’s claims about noncitizen voting, the SAVE Act, efforts to access state voter rolls, the dismantling of federal election security inf...

Historian and author of the “Letters From An American” newsletter Heather Cox Richardson joined Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to discuss the historical roots of today's political moment, the relationship between American democracy and U.S. global leadership, the future of the international order, and what a new foreign policy for the 21st century could look like. Follow The Long Game so you never mi...

As the United States approaches its 250th birthday, how should Americans assess the country's strength, its democracy, and its role in the world? Recorded live at the Aspen Ideas Festival, Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer are joined by historian and foreign policy scholar Robert Kagan for a wide-ranging conversation on America's future. Drawing on four decades of writing about American power and the in...

Historian and “On Tyranny” author Timothy Snyder joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to discuss the Iran war and ceasefire negotiations, the state of the Russia-Ukraine conflict, how Ukraine has transformed drone warfare, what these wars reveal about the limits of American military power, and what a positive vision of freedom looks like for the United States as it approaches its 250th anniversary. ...

President Trump says the war with Iran is over. But what exactly did the United States agree to? Ambassador Wendy Sherman, the lead U.S. negotiator of the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to assess the new U.S.-Iran agreement and explain why she believes it gives Tehran significant concessions while securing few meaningful nuclear constraints in return. Topics covered: Whe...

As the World Cup kicks off, what can soccer tell us about the state of the world? Franklin Foer, author of “How Soccer Explains the World,” joins the show to discuss why the world's most popular sport remains one of the best lenses for understanding nationalism, globalization, identity, and political power. More than twenty years after the book's original publication, Foer reflects on how globaliz...

More than four years into the Russia-Ukraine war, has the battlefield finally begun to shift? Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer sit down with Michael Kofman, one of the leading analysts of the conflict, fresh off a trip to Ukraine's frontlines. Kofman argues that Ukraine is in its strongest position since 2023 and explains why Russia's grinding offensive may be running out of steam. Together, they discu...

President Trump is simultaneously pursuing peace talks with Iran while escalating U.S. military pressure in the region following recent strikes. Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer revisit the policy options most likely facing the administration and walk through how they would advise the president at this moment of escalation and diplomacy. Then, Ricardo Zúñiga, former Senior Director for Western Hemisphe...

President Trump is preparing to sign a major executive order on AI and cybersecurity at a moment of growing concern over cyber threats from China, Russia, Iran, and criminal ransomware gangs. Jen Easterly, former Director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency and now CEO of RSAC, the world's largest cybersecurity community, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to discuss: Why Americ...

President Trump heads to Beijing for a high-stakes summit with Xi Jinping at a moment of growing instability in the Middle East and rising anxiety across Asia. In this episode, former U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to preview the summit and discuss: Why China increasingly believes the United States is in decline Xi Jinping’s read of Donald Trump Whet...

Iran war developments, including new signs of a potential deal, UAE’s withdrawal from OPEC, and what weeks of conflict have revealed about U.S. leverage. In this episode, Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer discuss: - Why a deal with Iran may be inevitable but harder to reach now - How markets, military risks, and politics are shaping Trump’s strategy - Warnings about depleted U.S. munitions  - Why the UA...

Dan Wang, author of Breakneck, breaks down the divide between China’s “engineering state” and America’s “lawyerly society” and what that means for the future of U.S.-China competition. Wang joined Jake and Jon before a live audience at the Endless Frontiers conference in Austin, Texas. In this episode: - Why China builds at scale and why the U.S. often struggles to keep up - The strengths and limi...

H.R. McMaster and Matt Pottinger, former National Security Adviser and Deputy National Security Adviser to President Trump in his first administration, join Jake and Jon for a wide-ranging conversation on Iran, China, and how national security decisions get made at the highest level. Drawing on their time in the White House, they debate the decision to go to war with Iran, the nature of Iran’s nuc...

Former Secretary of State John Kerry, who has spent more time negotiating with Iranian leaders than anyone, joins Jake and Jon to discuss the marathon diplomacy efforts that resulted in the JCPOA, Trump’s decision to strike Iran, the likelihood of a deal, the prospects for a two state solution between Israel and Palestinians, and the future of the U.S.-Israel relationship. Then, Jake and Jon discu...

Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer break down the ceasefire between the United States and Iran, announced Tuesday evening.  They walk through how the deal came together from President Trump’s escalating rhetoric to Pakistan’s role as an unlikely intermediary and assess what the ceasefire actually is, and what it isn’t. They also break down the deeper questions about what the U.S. achieved, what Iran gain...

One month into the war with Iran, President Trump addressed the nation in prime time — but instead of clarity, the same big questions remain about how this war ends. This week, Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer break down what the president said, what he didn’t say, and what it reveals about where this war is heading. They then take on a Red Team / Blue Team exercise: Jon argues to Iran’s leadership tha...

Senator Ruben Gallego, a Marine veteran of the Iraq War and U.S. Senator from Arizona, joins Jake and Jon to discuss the war in Iran and Congress’s role in decisions of war and peace. Drawing on his experience in one of the hardest-hit units of the Iraq War, Gallego warns that Washington risks repeating the same mistakes. His bottom line: “The best way to support the troops is don’t send us to stu...