Second Nature

Steve Holmberg is one of our favorite recurring guests, and this time, he showed up with something nobody expected. Over the holidays, Steve went from zero coding experience to a fully functional AI-powered app called Field Check, built using the vibe coding platform Lovable. The app connects retail store associates directly to brand product and marketing teams through AI-driven chats that go deep...

Maren Hamilton ran global social at The North Face — building and executing a strategy for 5.5 million followers, integrating athletes and creators, and navigating every platform shift from the follow graph to the discovery graph. Then she left to help build Popfly, the creator platform built specifically for the outdoor industry. In this conversation, Maren shares the playbook she developed at TN...

Matt Trappe is a photographer, filmmaker, creative strategist, and the voice behind the Matter of Brand newsletter: one of the most consistently sharp reads on brand building in the outdoor space. In this conversation, Matt and Aaron dig into why leading with innovation and tech has become table stakes rather than a differentiator, the three elements that make a brand story actually stick, and why...

Most outdoor brands have a YouTube problem. They're just not talking about it. Jeff Pelletier is a filmmaker, trail running creator, and one of the most thoughtful students of YouTube strategy and in the outdoor space. In this episode he breaks down why most brand channels are underperforming and what to actually do about it. We cover the difference between consistency and familiarity, why athlete...

Michael Rueckert was a ski resort marketing director who got curious about a simple question: when someone asks an AI where to ski, does Snow Basin show up? That curiosity led him down a rabbit hole that eventually became Centium AI, a platform now working with over 170 outdoor brands to help them understand and improve their visibility across every major AI model. In this conversation, Michael an...

We hosted a Second Nature meetup with everyone at the Sea Otter Classic, and pulled a handful of friends up to the microphone to have conversations about everything happening in the industry and in their world at large.  Jeremy Dunn, Braydon Bringhurst, Eric Porter, Tom Austen, Rachel Fussell, Steve Blick and Yuri Hauswald joined Aaron on the stage to chat through the lessons they've learned and t...

What if bikes could transform cities, create economies, and solve problems nobody thought they were for? We're joined today by Peter Abraham, one of the most connected strategic minds in the bike industry, just ahead of Sea Otter Classic. We cover a lot of ground: the state of the bike industry after a brutal few years, why e-bikes are reaching people the legacy brands never could, what London and...

150 episodes. Two years. No shortage of stuff happening. On this milestone bro pod, we take stock of where Second Nature has been — and where things are heading. Digging into what's actually changed in 2026: what we've removed, working with an executive coach, launching a live weekly show, and opening the first mountain bike retail store in Shenzhen, China. Plus a real conversation about the grind...

Floris Gierman has it all: he's an author, content creator, co-founder of a running apparel brand, and so much more. His approach in hindsight seems methodical and measured in its approach, but the truth is that this all came around from years of consistent, small steps. In this episode, we dig into the day-to-day as well as the big picture of Floris Gierman's world. This episode is supported by P...

The Evolution of Brands, Athletes and Creators If there's one thing for certain, it's that nothing ever stays the same - doubly so if you're a brand in the outdoor space or an athlete or creator. Over the past year, we've had so many discussions about what's working, the right way to approach it, and how it has evolved. Jonathan Levitt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jlevitt815/ Small Shows Hit Diffe...

Recently, two long-standing outdoor industry businesses, Alpenglow Expeditions and Thomson Bike Tours, were acquired by Milky Way Park. But while acquisitions are nothing new to the outdoor industry, the way it came together (and continues to develop) is worth a closer look. On this episode, iconic athlete and Alpenglow founder Adrian Ballinger joins Milky Way Park's founder Matthew Lloyd-Thomas t...

The Future Of Investing In The Outdoor Industry Mel Strong made a meaningful impression during her first appearance on the podcast, and we've got her back on the podcast again to demystify how brands can raise capital, how to speak to boards and VCs, and to answer the all-important question...should we have our own venture fund? Show Notes: Mel Strong: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanie-strong/ M...

Uplifting Talent In The Outdoor Industry Rachael Burnside saw an opportunity to build a stronger community of women in the bike industry by connecting experienced mentors with mentees, which would help build and retain top talent. The fifth round of the Uplift mentorship program is now underway, and in our conversation, Rachael breaks down the playbook of what it took to build this program - and h...

The Roadmap Of Rumpl Wylie Robinson co-founded Rumpl over a decade ago, bringing an idea to life in the way that every outdoor entrepreneur dreams of doing. Over that time, he's experienced the twists and turns, ups and downs, and during this introspective discussion, we dig into the roadmap and the lessons he's learned from the journey (so far). Show Notes: Wylie Robinson: https://www.linkedin.co...

Uncovering The Fear Of Success Christian Rawles joins the podcast today for an extremely open and honest discussion about career, success, and how we approach our work. Christian has inspired so many thought-provoking conversations offline, we had to get him on the podcast to share his wisdom and insights with everyone. This is a special episode, we hope you enjoy it! Christian Rawles: https://www...

The Past, Present and Future of Des Linden After winning the Boston Marathon, writing a book, hosting a giant running podcast...what's next? We caught up with Des Linden to talk about her career so far, but more importantly, where she's heading next. Show Notes: Des Linden: https://www.instagram.com/des_linden/ Nobody Asked Us (Podcast): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nobody-asked-us-with-d...

The Outdoor Brand Spending $1 MILLION On Ads (Every Month) You could've heard a pin drop at Outdoor Media Summit when Brian Davis told the audience his brand spends one million dollars on ads every month. But how did he get here? In this week's episode, we got to dive into Brian's history of launching and building brands - and the conversation that followed did not disappoint. Show Notes: Brian Da...

How To Write A Book About Running Raziq Rauf is the author behind "This Is Running" a new book that comes out in a few short months. Raz is also the author behind Running Sucks on Substack, and in this episode we dig into the process of becoming a published author, along with all the necessary hurdles to get over the hurdles to making it happen. Show Notes: Raziq Rauf: https://www.linkedin.com/in/...

Alex Mather and his team at Eternal are building a platform that addresses long term health of active, athletic people looking for a proactive approach. In this episode, we dug into the lessons Alex learned while being an early employee at Strava, founding The Athletic (as well as exiting it) and it all played into his latest venture. Show Notes: Alex Mather: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexemathe...

Steve Holmberg joins the podcast for our annual predictions podcast. Based on his insights from the industry, he shares a bit of where we've been - as well as where he thinks we're headed in the year ahead. Steve takes us through his analysis on participation, brands, marketing, product, marketplace, retail and external. Show Notes: Steve Holmberg: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenholmberg/ Insi...

FlyLow was founded by Dan Abrams and Greg Steen twenty years ago to create backcountry ski pants that could hold up to the demands of the sport and terrain. They continued to refine and expand the product line, as their own proficiencies were expanding and refining. Dan joins us this week to share stories and lessons from the journey so far. Show Notes: FlyLow Gear: https://flylowgear.com/ Dan Abr...

It's the end of an era, and what a chapter it was. Red Bull, the brand that brought Dylan and Aaron together, has graduated Dylan from their official athlete roster. It felt like the perfect time to put the partnership in perspective, with takeaways, stories and lessons from nearly a decade-long partnership. This is the lifecycle of a brand relationship that brings the best out of everyone involve...

Chef Corso launched Outdoor Eats to improve the quality of trailside food. On his journey to level up everyone's culinary experience outdoors, he managed to build a brand that includes a TV series (going on its third season), a line of cookbooks, and plenty more. Reaching the outdoor audience has been an iterative process, and we dug into all of the details and steps along the way. Chef Corso: htt...

It's the dream: starting your career as a mechanic and working your way up to running one of the largest bike companies in the world. Ben Coates recently joined Canyon Bicycles to lead their North American division, and in our discussion, we dug into his journey to learn everything we could about the steps he took and how he handled some of the wildest curveballs imaginable. Show Notes: Ben Coates...

The Truth About Athlete Sponsorship Kelly Newlon is leading the way with her approach to athlete sponsorship in the trail running space, and we get into the ethos of her process. Athlete sponsorship is going through some incredible changes at the moment, and this conversation with Kelly highlights the opportunities for both brands as well as athletes - in any sport. Show Notes: Kelly Newlon: https...