The Spiritual Brewpub

David Hayward is the "NakedPastor." He is a cartoonist, author, and former charismatic/evangelical pastor who deconstructed his faith and rebuilt a new refreshing spirituality that still embraces the wisdom of Jesus... but without the religious baggage. Michael and David discuss their journeys and David's unique experience. A psychologist says of David's latest cartoon book, Flip It Like This, "A...

Daniel Bannoura is a Palestinian Christian who grew up in the West Bank and taught at Bethlehem Bible College. Now a PhD candidate at Notre Dame, Daniel joins Michael to discuss the Israel-Hamas War, the wider Palestinian-Israel conflict, and his Palestinian Christian roots. There's so much context and history to learn here. A very illuminating interview during this critical time. To get the most...

Kathy Shihadah, a Christian and ex-evangelical, is married to a Gazan Muslim who has family in Gaza. She joins Michael to share her very personal and gripping story about her spiritual journey, a multi-faith marriage, and insights on the plight of Palestinians. Kathy and Michael share empathy for all who are suffering in the Israel-Hamas War, both Israelis and Palestinians. People of good will den...

American democracy is in danger. How do we protect it from authoritarian reactionary Christianity? David Gushee joins Michael to discuss his new book, Defending Democracy from Its Christian Enemies. Gushee makes a robust case for a renewed commitment to democracy on the part of Christians—not by succumbing to secular liberalism, but by drawing on Christianity's own best traditions. Any concerned C...

Why do so many evangelicals deny vaccine science? Why are so many suspicious of the science behind climate change? Why do most evangelicals reject theistic evolution? Michael talks to Janet Kellogg Ray to get answers. This evangelical antipathy to modern science turned deadly during the COVID-19 crisis when white evangelicals snubbed precautions and vaccines. Herself a science educator and Christi...

There is one very important thing that my evangelical deconstruction taught me about Jesus: With a few exceptions, modern Christian churches have tangled Jesus up in a huge wad of unhistorical beliefs, doctrines, and practices. I learned that by doing a sound, non-sectarian study of history, we can disentangle him from these religious falsehoods. In this episode, I share 10 facts about Jesus that...

Thomas Jay Oord, scholar, theologian, and professor at Northwind Seminary, joins Michael to talk about his new book, The Death of Omnipotence and the Birth of Amipotence . They discuss whether God is all powerful or not and what is a better, more "biblical", and philosophically logical way of looking at divine power. Amipotence is the uncontrolling love of God. It's a beautiful notion that fits sc...

Special guest Jim Palmer joins us on The Spiritual Brewpub. Jim is a former mega-church pastor, a master of divinity graduate, a humanist chaplain, a certified spiritual director, and the founder of the Center for Non-Religious Spirituality. Jim and Michael talk about Jim's deconstruction and rebuilding, the evangelical experience, the needs Jim saw that led him to found the Center for Non-Religio...

Laci joins Michael in a fascinating conversation about her work as a Certified Trauma Recovery Coach (CTRC) focusing on helping people overcome religious trauma. Learn her story how she got caught up in an evangelical cult ministry, started deconstructing, and finally caught a vision to help people recover from the same trauma she went through. Don't miss this one! Laci is awesome! To learn more a...

Michael and Karen have a conversation about her story described in her new book, "Too Much and Not Enough: Sacred Thoughts Said Out Loud." Karen shares with a refreshingly brutal honesty about her experiences growing up under the influence of toxic theological systems that left her doubting her sanity, her identity, and her voice. Like many men and women who have been hurt by the Church they loved...

Author, poet, spoken word artist, and former pastor of The Restoration Center and the The Rock Worship Center, both in South Carolina, Desimber Rose joins Michael to talk about toxic church culture. It’s time to expose the dark underbelly of institutional church and Desimber is equipped to do it. She’s also your guide to healing from the spiritual wounds of church hurt. Michael and Desimber talk a...

Food to benefit your spiritual journey.  Heather Hamilton, author of Returning to Eden: A Field Guide for the Spiritual Journey , joins Michael to discuss her story deconstructing evangelicalism and rebuilding a surprisingly refreshing new paradigm. Heather has a knack for sharing spiritual and theological breakthroughs, including her mystical experience that snapped her out of a nervous breakdown...

Mason Mennenga joins Michael to discuss his journey surviving Veggie Tales (an evangelical children's animation franchise), an evangelical mega church and its theology, and how he came to question it all and discover a liberating and more historically-honest faith.  As a podcaster, YouTuber, and aspiring theologian with an MDiv, Mason has some really valuable, simple and profound content that help...

Angela Herrington joins Michael to discuss her work as a Faith Deconstruction Coach, workshop presenter, and author of a forthcoming book, "Kicking Toxic Religion to the Curb: Deconstruct Your Faith Without Losing Yourself." Hear about Angela's journey and the abundant content she has developed helping people deconstruct conservative Christianity and evangelicalism. Also, the many examples that bo...

Brad Jersak joins Michael to discuss his latest book, After the Embers: Faith After the Great Deconstruction. Their conversation includes Brad's deconstruction journey, both his support and critique of today's mass deconstruction, and examples of historical deconstructionists like Voltaire, Kierkegaard, and Dostoevsky. He also shares how Simone Weil's take on the problem of evil "saved my life" as...

Biblical scholar Jennifer Grace Bird joins Michael in a fascinating conversation about the importance of knowing original meaning and thinking for oneself when it comes to the Bible. Jennifer shares her insights found in her book "Permission Granted: Take the Bible into Your Own Hands" and her forthcoming book, "Marriage in the Bible: What Do the Texts Say?" Folks, you have permission to examine t...

What does post-Christian mean? According to Maria French, it doesn't automatically mean post-Jesus or post-faith. Join Maria and Michael as they discuss why the ideas in Maria's book are so critical to the conversation about deconstruction. The community of post-evangelicals, or even those who are still evangelical but disillusioned, will benefit to hear how Maria's journey offers this lesser know...

Dan Henderson joins Michael to discuss his book, Confessions of a Recovering Evangelical, which chronicles his journey of alienation and frustration with traditional evangelical Christianity. Many like Dan are "Nones" and are often traumatized by the transition from a rigid religious world view to a more humanistic open one. They are also usually harassed by family and former friends. Drawing on h...

Rob Schenck had at least three conversions. One, to Christ, two to a highly politicized faith, and three from the Religious Right back to Jesus' teachings. Michael and Rob have a fascinating conversation about his journey and how evangelicals turned their backs on Jesus' love ethic by justifying outlandish gun rights and using Jane Roe (Norma McCorvey) of "Roe v. Wade" as a trophy in the abortion...

Can you be a Christian and be gay? Tim Rymel spent nearly 20 years emphatically answering no to that question. Born into the fundamentalist, Pentecostal Christian faith, he went into the ministry at 15-years-old, pleading with God to make him straight. His desperate journey led him into conversion therapy (among the Ex-Gay Movement), where he went from participant to leader at what was once the wo...

This episode is critical to listen to as we get close to the midterm elections in November 2022. My new friend, Carolyn Baker, shares lessons from her book, Confronting Christofascism: Healing the Evangelical Wound.  We discuss the history of this unholy alliance--fascist, macho, authoritarian ideas mixed with conservative Christianity (and politics)--its relation to Trumpism, and how it threatens...

There is the accepted, often-repeated version of Christian history—and then there’s the real story. In this podcast, Michael interviews author Steve Paul on his book that helps people learn little-known details of the world’s largest faith and helps them differentiate between Jesus' teachings and institutional religion.  Steve's extensive research of Christian history, once simply called "The Time...

When Chris Kratzer left his Lutheran roots, he became a pastor of evangelical and Southern Baptist churches for 21 years. Later, he got caught up in the intoxicating church growth movement. Eventually, after a long road of self examination and realization, he had a radical change of heart and mind that led him to walk away from it all. Enter The Spiritual Brewpub and hear Michael and Chris discuss...

Joshua Harris became famous at 22 in evangelical circles after writing a book called, "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" that popularized the concept of "courting" as a "Christian" alternative to the secular dating scene. Harris was a product of the conservative Christian homeschool movement. He later became a senior pastor of a Sovereign Grace Ministries mega church (formerly People of Destiny) outside Wa...

In his newest book, " Fall in Love, Have Children, Stay Put, Save the Planet, Be Happy ," Frank Schaeffer offers a passionate political, social, and lifestyle “blueprint” for changes millions of us know are needed to rebalance our work lives with thriving relationships. Before Covid, many Americans were already questioning capitalism’s “values.” We were already challenging the idea that your job d...