The Lawyer's Escape Pod

Shunta Grant is a former litigator turned business owner. When it became clear that practicing law wasn’t a fit for her, she leaned into her side project making hair bows. She grew that business successfully and leveraged all of her new business experience to launch her current product, The Best Today Guide. Shunta tells us about the power of letting go of the expectations you had for yourself and...

If you ever feel like you’re drawn to something that just isn’t “realistic”, think about Jess’s story. It's hard to make a bigger leap than from international human rights at the Hague to stand-up comedy. In this episode we discuss: The limited view of career options many of us have Jess’s career in international criminal law At the end of the day, practicing law is still practicing law - even in...

Jessica Medina is a former big law litigator and SEC investigator who now runs her own financial coaching business. She helps big law attorneys who need a financial plan in place to allow them the freedom to explore new career options. Basically - she helps people avoid or remove those pesky golden handcuffs so many of us get caught in. Jessica tells us about her own journey of 14 years in practic...

Charlotte Smith is a former UK employment attorney who now runs her own business coaching lawyers in her Life Design for Lawyers program. You can also check out her podcast, Limitless Lawyer. Charlotte tells us about her journey away from practicing law. She followed the breadcrumb path of her interests and intuition to her new career. It wasn’t always smooth, but these paths often aren’t. Charlot...

Jordan Hellman is the Senior Director of Strategic Partnerships at Care Partners at Home. After working in litigation in a few different environments, Jordan decided it wasn’t a context problem - he just didn’t enjoy practicing law. So, he leaned into his strength in relationship-building to create a new career in sales and business development.  Sometimes your best laid plans for your career don’...

Dr. Jan Newman is a licensed clinical psychologist, certified executive coach, and former Big Law attorney who works with multi-passionate high achievers who want to level up their lives.  Jan shows us how to take a scientific, systematic approach to leaving law and finding a new career. This process is an experiment: outline your ideas, try them out, learn from the feedback. Don’t expect to have...

Heather Hubbard is a former Intellectual Property and Entertainment lawyer who practiced for 10 years before being drawn by her unique talents into starting her own personal and professional development company. She tells us about her journey out of practice, the limits we place on ourselves as lawyers, and tools we can leverage to help us move ourselves forward. In this episode, we discus: Heathe...

Summer Challenge!! Today’s episode is a little different. Instead of having a guest, I wanted us to take some of the inspiration we’ve gotten here and elsewhere and turn it into action. We can consume advice, wisdom, and ideas until we’re blue in the face. But, we need to translate that into action in our lives if we want to see real change. I think the important thing is that you don’t have to ta...

Alex Su is a former big law litigator who now does business development and sales within the legal technology industry. Currently, he is the Director of Business Development at Evisort, an AI-powered contract intelligence platform. Alex talks about taking the time to reflect on his interests and natural inclinations, and how this allowed him to identify his unique set of skills. His thick skin and...

Mary Cobb is both an artist and a working lawyer. She tells us about how she left full-time practice to move to Italy and learn to paint. She’s now built a dual career, returning to practice as a staff attorney while building her art business on the side. I think her story gives a good glimpse into how pursuing your interests and passions can be balanced with a legal job, if that’s where your comf...

Alexis Robertson is the Director of Diversity & Inclusion at Foley & Lardner LLP where she provides firm-wide strategic direction and oversight on all diversity and inclusion related matters. Alexis talks to us about her journey out of litigation to recruiting, and ultimately to diversity and inclusion work. We speak about the structural racism within our industry and the challenges law firms face...

For the first episode after this Covid-19 break, I’m speaking again with Annie Little, a former lawyer turned career coach specializing in coaching lawyers. We jump right into what this new reality means for lawyers thinking about career shifts. There are obviously a lot of challenges in this new reality, but there are also a lot of opportunities. And I hope this episode is more hopeful than anyth...

After nearly two decades in litigation practice, Chris Gillett took his hobby of photography and grew it to a full-time headshot photography business. Chris shows us that prioritizing time pursuing an interest can open up doors down the road. His story also emphasizes a theme we’ve discussed before: there are seasons in your life and career if you allow there to be.  In this episode, we discuss: I...

My guest today is Josh Ferguson, a Research Consultant at Common Good, a government reform think tank. Josh practiced at a firm for a few years, then moved into legislative work at the Maryland State House, which he loved (making him a little bit of a different case than some of my other guests). But, with a baby on the way, his wife got a new job in a new city. They wanted one of them to stay hom...

Angela Han is Corporate Counsel at HealthPro Heritage, runs her own company, Angela Han Health, and hosts the podcast Fit to Practice. Angela gives us some great tips on how to devote time to a side hustle you love while you’re still practicing. She’s not looking to move out of law completely. You could find a dual career balance, as she has. Or maybe you take her approach as a stepping stone towa...

Travis Hornsby is a Chartered Financial Analyst and the founder of Student Loan Planner, a company that helps analyze the best repayment paths for people with significant student debt. Travis gets into detail about strategies that will allow you to manage those loans without having to be stuck in a job you hate. This means getting into quite a bit of math - and it’s a complicated system. But don’t...

After almost 5 years in litigation practice, Clara Jung found herself dissatisfied with practicing and considering her next steps. Initially, she looked into legal recruiting. But, after not getting any traction there, she didn’t give up - she just went back to the drawing board. She thought about what genuinely interested her - whether or not it had any legal connection. She realized that interio...

Today's guest is Annie Little. She is a former lawyer, and now a career coach specializing in coaching lawyers. Annie walks us through a very helpful framework on thinking through a career shift. It means going back to the drawing board and asking ourselves about our core values. It means training ourselves to think differently. It’s not a quick fix, but a helpful approach for long-term satisfacti...

This mini episode is a quick season/year-end wrap-up. I wanted to thank you all for listening. It's been great hearing from some of you, and I'm glad you're finding it helpful. Please be in touch if you have any thoughts on topics, careers paths, or other questions you'd like me to cover. Top 6 Lessons: (1) You are smart. You can learn how to do something new, and to succeed. (2) Take Action. As l...

Adam Oliver is the Managing Director of Firm Prospects, which offers data-driven market intelligence for legal search professionals. Out of law school, Adam practiced corporate law in a number of firms before deciding it was time to pull the plug. His experience working with legal recruiters during his firm jumps opened his eyes to that profession. He took the leap and started his own legal recrui...

Jonathan Laubinger is an actuary at Argonaut Insurance Company. Jon earned his JD/MBA thinking he’d go into politics or antitrust law. But before he ever even practiced law, his path took a turn towards insurance and the actuarial field. I think Jon has a really interesting perspective. For him, leaving the practice of law wasn’t wasting all the effort he put into earning his degree. It was just p...

Jonathan Liu is a realtor at H&M Realty Group and President of Res Ipsa Real Estate Solutions. As his company name hints, he’s a lawyer turned real estate agent and investor. Jonathan practiced primarily in the employment law area. For a while it was the sensible decision to stick with something secure in light of his growing family. On the side, though, he had begun investing in rental properties...

My guest today is Rachel Solomon, who is the Founder and Creative Director at Honor Code Creative, a branding company that offers a full spectrum of creative, design, copy, editorial, PR and marketing services for her clients. Rachel started off in big law litigation, but realized after a few different positions that practicing law just wasn’t the right fit. She pursued her interests in writing an...

Adam Friedl spent many years practicing in various public interest organizations. One of these organizations was a non-profit technology company with the mission of  improving access to justice. Working there sparked an interest in the tech side of things, and he started teaching himself to code on the side. Fast forward a few years, and he’s left the law completely to be a full time software engi...

Melissa Lorenzo-Herve is a Senior Attorney Editor at the Practical Law Company (a division of Thompson Reuters), as well as the CEO and Creative Director of Pirouette NYC, a clothing line for the professional woman. Melissa tells us about how she built this dual career after leaving the practice of law. In this episode we discuss: That the area of law that attracted you is often not where you end...